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Scoring questions

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Blueraven81, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. Blueraven81

    Blueraven81 TS Member

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    I have a couple of scoring questions concerning singles trap:

    1) If a bird breaks coming out of the house and the shooter takes a shot and hits a broken piece, is this scored as a hit or is the shooter required to take a second shot? I understand that if the shooter takes a shot and misses a broken piece it's scored as a loss.

    2) If a shooter calls "pull" but doesn't take a shot, does the shooter get another bird or is this considered a loss?

    Thanks,
    Blueraven
     
  2. mkstephen

    mkstephen Active Member

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    2010 ATA Rule Book page 31;


    Section VII "OFFICIAL SCORING"


    Sub-Section E "NO TARGET"


    "The referee/scorer shall rule “NO TARGET” and allow another target(s)
    in the following instances:"


    Paragraph 2 & 3


    "2. In single target events when the target is thrown broken, regardless
    of the result of any shot fired.


    3. When a whole target appears on the call of the shooter along with
    target debris."


    Michael Stephenson
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    If a shooter calls for, and gets a legal target,and voluntarily does not shoot, it is a lost target. If he does not shoot for an involuntary reason (flinch) or a gun problem (including safety, no shell loaded), it is a failure to fire.

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Pat, have you ever had to enforce a lost target call for someone deliberately turning down legal targets? I understand the rule and the difference between this and a FTF but I have avoided making that call a few times when that is what I thought was going on. Just giving them a FTF might be a cop out but it does avoid conflict.

    Any advice or suggestions on how to handle that?
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    wolfram- Yes, in the past I have called a lost target. I will call a F to F only after I ask why the shooter did not shoot. If I turn down a target for some reason, or have a failure to fire, I always turn to the scorer and explain why I did not shoot.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. over/under

    over/under Member

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    What if debris comes out with what appears to be a whole unbroken target? I just learned this a couple weeks ago.
     
  7. harleypilot

    harleypilot Member

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    What if debris comes out with what appears to be a whole unbroken target? I just learned this a couple weeks ago.

    Same as a broken target.
     
  8. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    I believe that mkstephen in the third post on this thread mentioned that in #3.

    Bob Lawless
     
  9. over/under

    over/under Member

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    Well excuse me for missing that.
     
  10. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    I truely enjoy reading posts regarding the rules. Most of them are almost as good as questions regarding options and people who play without understanding them.
     
  11. Beni

    Beni Member

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    Hey Pat , I was at a registered shoot yesterday and the shooter on post one had 3 F to F, in a singles sub event. the scorer did not call it due to the primer being hit and the shell not going off. How should that have been handled. Beni
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    #3 FTF should have been a lost target.

    over/under It wasn't a criticism I just pointed it out that it had already been answered. You didn't seem to object when harleypilot answered it why when I pointed out the answer.

    TjayE it is interesting that you get to say what ever you want when you want if you are incorrect you don't feel you need to have pointed out to you. Yet when ever you get the opportunity to do the same you take advantage of it. OH thats right what is good for you is good. If it is good for me it is bad. I after all according to you am not entitled to an opinion like the rest of you.

    Now you have a nice evening pal.

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. TjayE

    TjayE Member

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    Bob, you never give up.

    OK, now you can have the last word.
     
  14. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Another reason to get rid of the FTF rule in it's entirety.

    Curt
     
  15. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Curt. A little personal responsibility for your guns condition and ammo choices never hurt the game before all this do over nonsense was put into play! A stupid act needs a loss, a true malfunction should be given another chance. 8 "overs" or 4 in a hundred is ridiculous and should be done away with except for a real malfunction, gun or ammo!

    Hap
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Beni- Of course, the third malfunction should have been a lost target. You asked how it should have been handled, but you might not like my answer. The proper way to take care of such situations would be for the members of the squad, especially the shooter, to have called a lost target. If the members of the squad, including the shooter, followed all ATA rules, including the one that stated all ATA members read the rule book, they would have known that only two failure to fires are allowed per sub event. There is not an ATA rule that requires the scorer to know the rules. There is an ATA rule that requires the shooters to know the rules. Sorry if I offended anyone but I fear many shooters do not understand the rules.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Just to point out: although there is the potential to have 8 FTFs in a 100 target event, it's not like the ATA powers-that-be sat back and said "you know, I think we need at least 8 do-overs per hundred."

    The purpose was to give you a chance to figure out what was wrong before losing a target; your gun or your ammo. Sometimes you might need 2 attempts to determine what's wrong, and it is likely both would be in the same 25 target subevent. Yes, that potentially leads to 8 per 100 target event, but that's all it is, a mathematical possibility. Most shooters I know might have a couple FTF's per year.

    Did we really need the increase? Probably not; but there is a reason it is that way other than what many see it as.
     
  18. eperry

    eperry Member

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    What if you refuse to shoot at an obviously illeagal target? Is that a lost or FTF?
     
  19. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Neither.
     
  20. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    eperry, thats a no target if you don't shoot, if you do, the results will be scored. We still have the slow and fast targets and that can always be an excuse for some. I hated that rule when we used people to launch targets also.

    Hap
     
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