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Scoring Doubles - See A Pair Rule?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by SocksUp, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. SocksUp

    SocksUp Member

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    Is it allowable for the lead shooter in doubles to call for a ‘see me’ pair at each post?

    Last I knew the rule was that only a ‘see one’ pair could be thrown at the start of the sub-event (and then in certain circumstances with broken, no target presentations, etc).

    I see from another post that it’s allowed under PITA rules, but cannot find it in the ATA rule book or recent revisions online.

    What is the rule and where could I find it?

    Thank you in advance for responses.
     
  2. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    ATA Rule Book Section IV, G, 5, a:

    in part, "a. After all squad members are present at their assigned positions on the trap field, the Squad Leader should ascertain that all squad members are ready to begin the sub-event. After doing so, the Squad Leader only may ask that target(s) be thrown for the squad’s observation. For regular 16-yard Singles and Handicap sub-events, the Squad Leader may ask for one (1) target only. For regular Doubles sub-events, the Squad Leader may ask for one (1) pair of Doubles."
     
  3. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    maybe that ATA online rulebook deserves a "sticky" on TS.com....

    then it would become ubiquitous.
     
  4. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    If yer on post 2 thru 5, pay attention...if you're squad leader...pay more...

    Ron Burr
     
  5. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    I had a tapper last month, he would tap the speaker post with his barrel to see a pair at each post. I fool them, I shut the speakers off and don't turn them on till the leader mounts his gun. Tap away.
     
  6. Mr.M

    Mr.M Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Shot with a guy years ago - Peg 1 - who would move to the new peg, close his gun like he was going to shoot, lower his gun and shuffle the speaker mount as though it was in the wrong place thereby throwing a pair. Seemed like an awful lot of work.

    The rule works well in PITA events. Some lead-off shooters always call for a pair, some never do. Since they are the only shooter really affected at a post change, it's their choice.

    Mike Mann
     
  7. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I often shoot the lead/off position. Most of the time I get to see 2 freebie targets. I get one freebie target when I say "Squad Ready" and another freebie target when I say "Throw One". I figure it is Not my fault!
     
  8. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    More than one "see-a-pair" at the start of the sub-event is just a waste of targets IMO. And I too shoot lead-off a LOT, prefer post one actually. Watching one pair fly will tell you if the trap is properly set and the equipment functional and if the targets are a little high/low or if the field is slightly cocked.
     
  9. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Anyone ever notice a Pat will throw a "soft" pair first time out after the machine has set for five minutes or so? All four of ours do.
     
  10. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    The PITA rule makes sense but I hope the ATA never changes the way it is now.


    Can you imagine how many shooters we would lose not to mention the purses would dwindle to record lows and the old timers would be clamoring for the good old days before the squad leader could see a pair after each post change.
     
  11. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Mike...

    It's a bit disingenuous to say it is not your fault if your actions knowingly and repeatedly generate a two throwings of targets...

    Jay
     
  12. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    My question: what should Shoot Management teach the pullers on when is the proper time to turn on the switch for the microphones; Before or After the squad leader asks if the squad is ready ? If I agreed that I should only get One freebie, should I pass on asking if the squad is ready or pass on the 'Look See' freebie ? The four other shooters have a right to see a freebie target. I am perfectly happy to only get One freebie but some clubs DO and some clubs DON'T.
     
  13. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    mike, how bout teaching the puller to turn on the speakers as the shooter on the first post shoulders his gun. And to turn the speakers off if shooter takes the gun from the firing position. Easy enuf, ya think?

    GneJ
     
  14. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    I shoot the lead-off position in doubles about 99.9 percent of the time, the only exception being if I go to a shoot by myself and just pickup a squad when I get there (and even then I can usually get post 1 because most people avoid it).

    It's true that Pat traps will throw a weak pair if it has been sitting in the cocked position for more than a few minutes. If the show-pair is weak, then I ask for another (which is within the rules) to make sure the next pair is legal.

    Mike is correct, it's not my fault if the scorer turns the microphones on as the squad takes the field, rather than when we are ready to shoot. When I ask if the squad is ready, I'm looking down the line at the squad members, not at the trap house, so whatever comes out when I ask if the squad is ready is not being seen by me. Once I know the squad is ready, then I face the trap and ask for the show pair. However, that shouldn't be interpreted that it's OK to cough, tap the mike stand, etc to get some extra show targets. But some places never turn the mikes off, so targets are constantly being thrown as people change posts and move the mike stands.

    Scott
     
  15. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Scott. I shoot mostly ATA targets but occasionally I go to a PITA Shoot and when I shoot lead/off in Doubles I follow the ATA rules as a habit. Until just this year PITA required 2 broken targets in a row before you were allowed a look/see target to clear the house. I'm still in the habit of waiting for 2 broken targets in a row before asking to clear the house. The 2013 rule is the same as ATA considering that automatic traps often leave debris on the plate when a broken target is thrown.
     
  16. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    With many clubs struggling to just "survive" in this economy,it is amazing to me how "inconsiderate" some people can be. See ing a free pair at EACH post is not only NOT allowed in the rules,it cost clubs a LOT of money!