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"Science" contradicts itself again and again

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by wireguy, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    Here is a great article where the same "science" that has proclaimed that they KNOW, and anyone who disagrees with them is themselves a Neanderthal troglodyte, is now, as with global warming and lots of other things they KNOW, quietly backing away from their original "scientifically verifiable" FACTS and admitting what they KNEW wasn't necessarily correct after all - after brainwashing a couple or more generations.

    http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/08/13/neanderthals-not-so-neanderthal-after-all-scientists-say/?intcmp=obinsite



    Neanderthals not so neanderthal after all, scientists say
    Published August 13, 2013
    Associated Press



    PARIS – Researchers have found what they say are specialized bone tools made by Neanderthals in Europe thousands of years before modern humans are thought to have arrived to share such skills, a discovery that suggests modern man's distant cousins were more advanced than previously believed.

    In a paper published online Monday by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, researchers discuss their discovery of four fragments of bone in southwestern France that they say were used as lissoirs, or smoothers, to make animal hides tougher and more water-resistant.

    The researchers believe the oldest tool is 51,000 years old, while the other three are between 42,000 and 47,000 years old. Similar tools are still used by leather workers to this day.

    Until now, scientists have believed that modern humans taught the Neanderthals how to make the tools, but modern humans are only believed to have reached central and western Europe 42,000 years ago.

    'Neanderthals are capable and did produce tools.'

    - Rachel Wood, an archaeologist and researcher in radiocarbon dating

    The researchers say the discovery provides the first evidence that Neanderthals may have independently made specialized bone tools -- that is, tools that could only be made from bone. Other early Neanderthal bone tools were simply replicas of their stone tools.

    The find adds to an evolving understanding that these distant cousins weren't perhaps the brutes they have come to represent in popular culture -- but also confirms that there is still much we don't know about them.

    "It's adding to a growing body of research, that's growing quite rapidly at the moment, that's showing that Neanderthals are capable and did produce tools ... in a way that is much more similar to modern humans than we thought even a couple of years ago," said Rachel Wood, an archaeologist and researcher in radiocarbon dating at the Australian National University who was not involved in the study.

    Shannon P. McPherron, one of the archaeologists involved in the dig and an author of the article, said it's possible that other Neanderthal dig sites contain similar tools. However, since they were probably used until the tips broke off -- leaving a fragment just a few centimeters long, as was the case with three of the tools found -- they would be difficult to spot.

    "It's like looking at pencil leads," he said, expressing hope the find would fuel more discoveries. "Once you sort of get the pattern, it's a lot easier to spot them."

    McPherron even held out the possibility that Neanderthals were the ones who showed modern humans how to make lissoirs, although modern humans clearly started making specialized bone tools on their own.

    "It's pretty rare that you hear that argument, so it's nice to hear it," said Wood, who noted that mostly researchers talk about modern humans influencing Neanderthals.

    Even though the age of the tools suggested Neanderthals began making them on their own, McPherron, of Germany's Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, and his co-authors didn't rule out the possibility that they did adopt this technology from modern humans. But that would mean modern humans entered Europe much earlier than thought.

    Scientists have recently begun to ask new questions about whether and for how long Neanderthals and modern humans co-existed. While the two groups were long thought to have intermingled and even interbred for thousands of years in Europe, a study published earlier this year suggested that Neanderthals went extinct in their last European refuge much earlier than previously thought, as long as 50,000 years ago -- thousands of years before modern humans were thought to have arrived.

    "Our find could indicate that there was a long period of interaction, where modern humans came into Europe and sent ripples through the pond, and then maybe withdrew and then came back again," McPherron said.

    But Sabine Gaudzinski-Windheuser, a professor at Mainz University who also wasn't involved with the study, said the evidence was a bit thin to draw any conclusions about the interaction between the two groups.

    "Based on this find to make statements about the transition or the interaction between Neanderthals and modern humans is really, well, you really have to stretch the evidence very far to get to this conclusion," she said.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/08/13/neanderthals-not-so-neanderthal-after-all-scientists-say/?intcmp=obinsite#ixzz2bxephO4Q
     
  2. flashmax

    flashmax Well-Known Member

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    Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.

    Don T.
     
  3. flashmax

    flashmax Well-Known Member

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    We all KNOW that Apes, Orangutans, and Chimpanzees are just dumb amimals too. Problem comes in when we see these 'animals' make and use tools or combine objects in their environment to put some object in their grasp which, without the right combination of objects, would be forever out of their reach. There is another danger. That of attributing human emotions and behaviors to animals e.g. watching a Penguin male hump another Penguin male and make the giant leap to attributing this behavior to the Penguins being 'gay'. Tool use can only be shown from remains and remains do not survive if the tool in not made of some durable thing that the environment cannot degrade. Such as a rock. Organic tools will only survive the eons if their resting place is favorable. That no ( or, none known ) 'tools' from 1 million years ago have been found does not mean that tools never were developed. Only that we, as modern humans, do not know what those tools might have looked like and we cannot recognise a thing for certain as being a tool. No tool? Then it follows that the skeletal/fossil remains are of a non-tool-using non-intelligent creature N'est-Ce Pas?

    Don T
     
  4. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    You guys are both honest scientists. The scientists (who should properly be called researchers) who represented for decades and decades that they KNEW all these things about the past, not so much.

    I worked closely with scientists in their laboratories for eight years. I got a good look at what many scientists are. Sadly much of what is allowed to call itself science isn't a search for truth, only a search for funding and recognition. This article just points up the fraud that is much of modern "science".
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    Global warming is a theory. It is not a fact.

    It was only a little more than three decades ago when scientists were proclaiming that global COOLING was a major threat and that we were triggering a new ice age.

    Theories are supposed to be presented to scientific colleagues for review, are expected to have facts supporting a conclusion, and are expected to have to have detractors who point out flaws and errors.

    That has not happened with the global warming debacle. Instead, a political goal was set, and those who failed to support the emperor in his new clothes found themselves facing unwanted scrutiny. Indeed, some scientists who challenged global warming found themselves with grants being denied or even being out of a job. The global warming political machine even declared that there should be "Nuremberg style trials" for anyone who denied global warming. How scientific.

    In a nutshell, the global warming theory has been morphed from science to witchcraft.
     
  6. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    We all KNOW that Apes, Orangutans, and Chimpanzees are just dumb amimals too. Problem comes in when we see these 'animals' make and use tools or combine objects in their environment to put some object in their grasp which, without the right combination of objects, would be forever out of their reach. You guys have obviously never seen Obama putt, talk about a monkey with a cue stick ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  7. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Ego and money are the at the base of many "scientific facts". sigh
     
  8. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    13 hurricanes projected this year. I can't wait to see how this shakes out.

    When they can tell me where and on what day, then we'll have something!
     
  9. blade819

    blade819 Well-Known Member

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    BIO - Your statement that Global Warming is a theory and not a fact may be incorrect based upon who you listen to or read by. I believe it's much like politics or even the media. Does one listen or watch FOX News and believe everything he/she hears/sees or does one watch MSNBC and do the same? Do you vote Republican, Democrat or Libertarian? Do Scientist who need funding to continue their research need to establish their agenda in accordance with the power in office or do they need to be fully independent and perhaps broke? My compliments to both the bigski aka Keilbasa Kid and to bb63 for expressing their "logical" yet unbiased opinions.

    blade819
     
  10. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    When "Global Warming" failed to supply the needed data to validate the pukes it suddenly became "climate change".

    Kind of like when "killing babies" becomes "women's health".

    All these spinmeisters better shut up or they might just spawn a cluster of tornados.

    HM
     
  11. flashmax

    flashmax Well-Known Member

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    blade, do any of your questions have any relevance AT ALL to whether or not a thing is, or is not, true? Does who you listen to change the truth in ANY way? Does the disclosure of e-mail conversations in which the global warming people discuss ways to fudge the numbers into fitting their theories change anything? Does sucking your thumb do anything at all other than give you buck teeth and a sore thumb? Sheesh. Read what you wrote. Just because I like to watch Superman movies does not mean that Christopher Reeve ever could fly without external help.

    Don T.
     
  12. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    'Climate change' is tricky...is it meant to be interpreted literally or figuratively, for example are the funds being used to 'change a business climate' or a 'political climate'? What can one really do about the unpredictable 'weather/temperature climate'?

    Where exactly is the money going and to whom?

    Why stop global warming when more 'hot crops' can be planted and exceed the number of 'cool crops'?

    Often times clever names are bestowed upon clever projects.

    "Green projects" for example definitely put the 'green' i.e. money into some people's hands.

    And then there's the cash alotted to 'shovel ready jobs'....

    Early weaponry...Who was the first to hurl rocks? Neanderthals?