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Schwarzenegger signs ammunition sales bill

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by Jerbear, Oct 12, 2009.

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  1. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger today signed into law a bill that requires buyers of handgun ammunition to leave thumbprints and detailed personal information with registered ammo sellers, as well as put restrictions on online bullet sales.

    “Assembly Bill 962 reasonably regulates access to ammunition and improves public safety without placing undue burdens on consumers,” Schwarzenegger said in a letter explaining his decision.

    The new restrictions will take effect Feb. 1, 2011.

    Authored by Assemblyman Kevin de Leon, D-Los Angeles, the bill bans direct shipping to Californians who buy bullets via mail order or over the Internet.

    Instead, any ammo they buy would need to be picked up at a licensed handgun ammunition dealer, similar to the way guns are currently bought and sold.

    The bill doesn’t require a waiting period to pick up ammunition as there is when purchasing firearms. All handgun ammunition must be kept behind store counters.

    Ammunition that can be used in both pistols and rifles — like the popular .22 caliber round used by target shooters and small game hunters — fall under the new restrictions.

    The bill also would require that those purchasing ammunition provide photo ID and a thumbprint.

    The information would be kept on file and made available to law enforcement agencies.

    Around a dozen gang-plagued cities in California have enacted similar local ordinances, geared to keep gang members from buying ammunition or tracking them down when they do.

    De Leon spokesman Dan Reeves has said the local laws have helped police track down 200 criminals who bought handgun ammunition. Some were drug dealers and many had large caches of illegal guns or explosives.

    Under the law, anyone who knowingly sells handgun ammunition to a felon would be committing a misdemeanor. The law also would make it a misdemeanor for documented gang members to possess handgun ammunition.

    The bill has been criticized by gun rights advocates, online ammunition retailers and Republicans.

    John Moffett, a clerk at Jones’ Fort gun store in Redding, said today that the bill will put an extra regulatory hurdle on consumers and ammunition dealers.

    “It’s going to be a hassle on both ends,” Moffett said.

    Though Schwarzenegger vetoed a similar bill in 2004, saying the federal government’s attempt at similar legislation proved to be “unworkable and offered no public safety benefit,” the governor today said that De Leon’s bill struck a fair balance between public safety and didn’t put undue burdens on bullet vendors and firearms dealers.

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    it's only a matter of time before it spreads...

    Jerbear
     
  2. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    When manufacturers refuse to sell to government agencies in the states imposing laws like this one, they will stop creating these arcane laws. Barret does that with their sales...
     
  3. Steve W

    Steve W Well-Known Member

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    First, thank you jerbear for keep us informed, I was wondering if it became law.

    Second, skeet_man I agree what you said, but it depend on how big the impact it's on their sales, I'd imagine most people would not stop buying ammo just because of it, instead, it might create a surge on sales for the time being. Barret did that because they got screwed in California, they lost the market totally, LE market was very limited in CA so they can afford to retaliate.

    In any rate, this is totally politic, created by those idiots in the state, it'll not stop any crime, it'll only cause inconvenient. I'm not going to stop buying ammo, or buy less than I used to, as a matter of fact, I'm not even going to complain to the retailers because he is a victim too.

    What I'll do for sure is, I'll put up more efforts in the next election to push those whining Republicans who don't vote.
     
  4. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    That's right skeet man, ammo manufacturers just need to quit selling to LE in CA. We should boycott those that do.

    JT
     
  5. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    I think many of the retailers will say to heck with it, it isn't worth the trouble. Ammo sales will diminish tremendously, to the point where the bookkeeping isn't worth the return. A beautiful black market has just been created. If these leftist idiots think a market that demands to be served can be stopped by their CS little law, they are beyond stupid. If the SCOTUS finds that the 2nd ammendment applies to the states in this next big case, this law will become moot anyway.
     
  6. BMC

    BMC Member

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    While there are some legal problems with the bill as written and plans are already underway to fight the bill in court, the fact remains that this isn't just an inconvenience. A bill like this can be perceived to actually benefit ammo stores/places that sell ammo. By eliminating internet ammo sales residents are forced to buy within the state. Expect ammo sales to go up with the blame being demand. This bill also proportedly will help the state budget by creating more sales tax revenue now that ammunition can only be purchased within the state (read politics into it). My girlfriend works at Walmart. I told her about this bill before it was signed and I told her what the salepersons in sporting goods were going to have to do to to comply. She laughed and said "no they won't, we'll just stop selling ammo statewide just like we stopped selling guns. Its too difficult to properly manage and corporate won't want to risk another lawsuit, so ammo will go bye-bye at Walmart.
    There will be a price increase in border states because CA residents will venture across the border into Oregon, Nevada and Arizona to buy in bulk, which of course will infuriate the locals and cause a major ammo supply problem. Stores will have to redesign their layouts to accomodate. Damn near the entire upper level of the sporting goods department at Bass Pro shops has ammo on display aisles. That will change, as it will have to in all other stores. Those places that don't want to deal with hassle will stop selling ammo altogether.

    Now at the moment this bill is written in regards to handgun ammunition and all reloading supplies. If this bill beats the legal lawsuits that are going to follow, what makes anyone with half-way decent reasoning think that they won't add shotshells to it. Its very easy for them to add terms and conditions to existing bills. That could, and probalby will mean, that all trap ranges will have to fingerprint and log all customer information just to sell a box of shotshells. How many ranges that provide shotshells are going to do that? If shotshells get written into the law, how do you think that will affect the sell of ammunition at the CA state shoot??? You'll have to bring your own most likely because its unlikely the vendors will want to deal with all the red tape just to sell a case of shells.
     
  7. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    BMC has it about right. Do you all remember the fed deal several years ago. Had to be 21 ot buy hand gun ammo. The store had to keep a list. 22s were on the list .Several of the discount stores in WV said the hell with it and stopped selling ammo.
    The bill in Ca is just the first step. Next shotshells and rifle ammo that can be used in a {automatic} shotgun or rifle. Thats everything
     
  8. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    So - are you still upset that Bush got Alito and Roberts on the Supreme Court, libbies?
     
  9. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    The government can make its own ammunition- it doesnt need anyone to sell it to them.

    This is troubling for a lot of reasons- but its what happens when the majority perceive a threat.

    Notice it could be an entirely new set of fingerprints ending up in a data base.

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  10. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

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    "The law also would make it a misdemeanor for documented gang members to possess handgun ammunition."

    So, just because you are on a list, (and not convicted) it is illegal to possess ammo?

    The ACLU will be on this one. Don't get me wrong. How do you think this will play the first time they use this one cause a gang member defends his family in his own home.
     
  11. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Best of my knowledge, the government doesn't have "owned" armories anymore, so yes, they'll need to continue to outsource ammunition...

    Further it is my recollection (help requested), that individuals who would self-incriminate are sometimes insulated from lack of participation in certain regulatory legislation... For instance, in Illinois, I seem to recall that there is case law that somehow felons could not charged with failing to have a FOID, as applying for a FOID would be self-incrimination of their felonious history - (I'm paraphrasing, so I apologize in advance) and I'm not sure if this is state based or federal based under 5th Amendment...

    But what would prevent Californians from self-importation across state lines, unless neighboring states agree to a similar set of requirements... (e.g. Illinois residents must present a FOID to contiguous states)...

    Lastly, I believe that if SCOTUS scores one for us and limits state pre-emptions, "reasonable" regulations are the key - Would providing picture ID and fingerprints be deemed "unreasonable" restrictions or an invasion of privacy?!

    respectfully offered,

    jay
     
  12. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    When lawyers (Politians) make laws, it is only to benefit them. If they ever lose their office, its back to praticing law.

    Which low and behold they enacted while in office.

    Always follow the money trail it will lead you to the coruption! and who is behind it!
     
  13. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    Isn't he the son of an Austrian Nazi?
     
  14. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

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    Isn't he the son of an Austrian Nazi?
     
  15. hreinke

    hreinke TS Member

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    I thought Arnie was a gun love'n republican?
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
  17. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    I feel bad for the shooters of California. As an ex-Californian I know the frustration of being hopelessly outnumbered by the liberal vote. Voting is no longer a viable option for real change, for pro-2A conservatives who live near the big cities. They will have to go out and picket and make a lot of noise to have any impact at this point. And most CA shooters I know won't be doing that - they have too many other pressing matters to deal with (daughter's soccer games, work, etc).

    I'm so glad I left. I love my new state with a fierceness I never knew was possible.

    Jen in Idaho
     
  18. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Arnold is a traitor and turncoat just like another Arnold in our history. (Benedict Arnold for those who attended school where they taught "tollerence")


    Kalifornication is so far left with all the illegals, gang members, and entitlement class crap out there voting it just isn't worth saving. I suggest they succeed from the US completely and join up with the commies in Quebec.

    Arnold start filling out your change of address form.
     
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