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School board says 'no' to letters for trapshooting

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Joe Potosky, Feb 3, 2010.

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  1. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    School board says

    School board says 'no' to letters for trapshooting

    By DOUGLAS BURNS - Staff Writer - Daily Times Herald - IA


    Carroll Community School District Board members Monday night said a proposal from local trapshooting enthusiasts clearly runs afoul of the district’s zero-tolerance policy on guns.

    Advocates of trapshooting were looking to get recognition of the sport for varsity letters at Carroll High School. School officials applauded efforts of volunteers working with kids, and board member Jerry Fleshner went so far as to say he would have considered participating in the sport had it been offered when he was a student at Carroll High School.

    But Superintendent Rob Cordes said modern school policies on guns on campuses would create a dilemma: the school could be faced with the possibility that it would award a varsity letter to a student who it then has to expel for possession of a gun.

    Cordes said that if a student had a gun in his or her trunk to take to trapshooting competitions, and the vehicle was in the high school parking lot, the board policy is clear: the student would be expelled for at least one calendar year.

    “That scares me,” Cordes said.

    And there’s no way to eliminate that possibility, he said.

    “I’m not sure you can ever get rid of that,” Cordes said. “I think that’s putting a student in an extremely bad position.”

    Board member LaVern Dirkx agreed, saying he doesn’t want to be forced into expelling well-intentioned kids with a policy that necessarily is strict.

    “I would hate to have that on my mind knowing we supported this,” Dirkx said. “I just think we’re asking for a lot of trouble.”

    No one spoke in favor of lettering during the public meeting Monday.

    The board voted 5-0 against recognizing trapshooting with a varsity letter.

    “That’s just something we can’t get into,” said board president Kim Tiefenthaler.

    Larry Greving and Dave Frank, volunteer trapshooting coaches, at a previous meeting addressed the board and asked that it consider allowing trapshooting athletes the opportunity to earn varsity letters for their performance in the activity.

    Greving told the board that this is a gap sport, one that provides an activity for students who do not regularly participate in other extracurricular offerings.

    He provided details about practices, shoots, liability, safety and the student requirements for participation. Not yet a sanctioned sport, Greving and Frank were asking the board to provide recognition as an added benefit to students.


    http://www.carrollspaper.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=9301
     
  2. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the 21st century. The high school I went to many years ago in NYC had a rifle range in the basement.


    Eric
     
  3. b12

    b12 Well-Known Member

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    All of bad policy's can be changed is call a vote. Any policy's can be put on a ballot to be changed or recinded. The problem the people in charge are looking for their longevity at their position and not for the good of the children they are overseeing. Don't quit now, see about getting the changed put on the ballot to let the voters decide if the policy should be change. After all Its the taxpayer that is funding the school. Not the board taking it out of your paycheck to pay themselves to make the decisions.
     
  4. dcb_wvu

    dcb_wvu Member

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    For every regulation there is an equal and opposite waiver! Don't you think it would be easy enough to have a list of all trap athletes and have them "check" their "weapon" in with the office? I had to do similar while attending WV Wesleyan. I would take my shotgun over to the campus police. I could check it out the night before for a morning hunt or sometimes just go over there in the middle of the night, they were staffed 24x7. Not a problem and not much of a hassle either. Allowed me some excellent hunting oportunities in an area where I had not hunted before.
     
  5. Sam Ogle

    Sam Ogle Member

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    Yes, it was a long time ago, but I used to take my 870 to school on the bus. Then, I would put it in my locker, and pick it at the end of school; ride 3/4 of the way home, and ask the driver if he could let me off to hunt my way home.
    No problem. A year kicked out of school? In IOWA! Oh, come on.
    "Zero Tolerance" is a nasty way of regulating anything.......it simply means: no debate, no exceptions even for good reason.
    The Anti-Gunners are disguised as caring parents (whose Father's never took hunting.)
    May God help us all.
    Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE
     
  6. jdsfarms

    jdsfarms Well-Known Member

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    Having been involved in getting a trapshooting program installed at our local school the excuse of having a zero tolerance policy on campus is BS.Our school has zero tolerance policy and the guns and ammo are not allowed on campus or in buses and it has never been a problem.During discussions we found that state law actually made an exemption for sports that involved firearms but we chose to leave our policy alone and it hasn't been a problem.We have had more students turn out for trapshooting than basketball at times and all students who participate are under ex-curricular rules which means no smoking,drinkin or drugs which is a positive thing for students who would normally not be under those guidelines.But then again the school I attended is 10 miles away and they still have the Local gun show in the elementary gym.Jerry
     
  7. rw993

    rw993 Active Member

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    Cordes said that if a student had a gun in his or her trunk to take to trapshooting competitions, and the vehicle was in the high school parking lot, the board policy is clear: the student would be expelled for at least one calendar year.

    “That scares me,” Cordes said.

    Dumb Ass, It would scare him knowing that there are trap guns out there??? It doesn't scare him that there is a gun in a car in the school parking lot possibly everyday to which he has no way of knowing?????

    I grew up in Iowa, The clown is probably from Kalifornia.....

    RW
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I think the ATA should give every member of the board a punch.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. thomaslea1

    thomaslea1 Member

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    This ain't the 50's or 60's anymore. I AM a school board member (not in that district) and I am in the process of investigating starting a trap/skeet club through FFA, most likely. That does NOT mean I will support guns and ammunition on the school campus. I DO support and will vote to enforce zero tolerance there. I can see no instance where it would be allowable for any student to bring guns and ammo on campus for any reason.

    Tom Lea
    Illinois

    And: Don't go off on the Illinois part. I would vote the same in any state or school district.
     
  10. no5shooter

    no5shooter Member

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    So where did anyone say recognizing trapshooting as a varsity sport (i.e., giving varsity letters) requires allowing guns and/or ammo on campus? Seems to me a compromise on where guns are allowed could be easily enough reached, and the student trapshooters could still be offically recognized by the schools.
     
  11. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I don't quite see the the connection between giving a letter for trap shooting nad the zero tolerance policy about guns on campus. It isn't necessary for the kids to bring their shotgun to school to be in the shooting program.
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    If resent memory and the above link serve me correctly this isn't the first time Joe has posted a thread dealing with this very subject.

    Ikey Starks

    "Gosh. Seems simple enough. Don't use the school parking lot. Park somewhere else."

    For some interesting information on your suggestion Ikey. You should check out this link.

    http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/sthread.cfm?ThreadID=208507#553474

    thomaslea1

    "That does NOT mean I will support guns and ammunition on the school campus. I DO support and will vote to enforce zero tolerance there. I can see no instance where it would be allowable for any student to bring guns and ammo on campus for any reason."

    Tom although I understand that this is your job. I think you should try to read just a little more closely what is put in front of you. As an example,

    "Advocates of trapshooting were looking to get recognition of the sport for varsity letters at Carroll High School. School officials applauded efforts of volunteers working with kids, and board member Jerry Fleshner went so far as to say he would have considered participating in the sport had it been offered when he was a student at Carroll High School.

    But Superintendent Rob Cordes said modern school policies on guns on campuses would create a dilemma: the school could be faced with the possibility that it would award a varsity letter to a student who it then has to expel for possession of a gun."

    So are you seeing anything in the first paragraph that says anything about possessing a firearm on campus??? Wouldn't you call that declaring someone guilty of of breaking the Zero tolerance rules before an infraction has even happened. In other word it is an assumption of guilt by the Superintendent before the infraction has occurred just because it is a lettering sport.

    Zero tolerance is one thing but some should stop to think that the treatment of students as lesser members of society because they choose to do something that is frowned upon by the politically correct. Made criminals because of the activity they have chosen. Just what kind of a message does that send to young impressionable minds.

    Some need to think before they assume the worst or believe every little thing they here.

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. TNCoach

    TNCoach Member

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    Joe,

    How many young ladies do you have on your team?

    Our state SCTP directors have voiced many times how having young ladies on the team actually legitimizes and grows the program. It's not fair to them not to give them a sport that can empower them.

    Good Luck,
    TNCoach

    You might do a little research into Title IX. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

    Title IX
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search

    Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, renamed in 2002 the Patsy T. Mink Equal Opportunity in Education Act in honor of its principal author, but more commonly known simply as Title IX, is a United States law enacted on June 23, 1972. The law states: "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance..."[1]

    Although the most prominent aspect of Title IX is its impact on high school and collegiate athletics, the original statute made no explicit mention of athletics.[2]
     
  14. Jack L. Smith

    Jack L. Smith Member

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    "I think the ATA should give every member of the board a punch." Pat Ireland

    Pat, what kind of a punch? I recall that you like words with two meanings.

    js in PA
     
  15. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Eric,

    That school had a rifle range in the basement because inorder to get federal funding to build the school it was required. HMB
     
  16. ogw

    ogw TS Member

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    Sorry to hear about your efforts to get shooting in your High School. I helped New Hampton High School get a program going and the school board voted 100% to support shooting. The way we got around the gun issue is to have the kids check in their guns at the beginning of the year. The firearms are kept in a trailer and the only access to them is at practice or a shoot. They even bus the kids to shoots around the area. Iowa DNR does have a shooting coordinator to assist schools getting on board. Also the Iowa High School Trap Shooting Association has shooting packets for Interested individuals to get trap started in the schools. This program can have a huge impact on your gun club, New Hampton will throw 30,000 targets in three months to the kids! It has also spawned a new club house, that seats 125 kids with a lazer practice field in the house and two new trap fields with voice activated pat traps. The club charges 25.00 family membership per year which includes, trap, skeet, small bore rifle range, cowboy shooting, 200yd rifle and a 100yd small bore range! If I can help in any way contact me at 641-330-8029.
     
  17. HC_John

    HC_John TS Member

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    I don't see why a student would have the need to bring thier guns to the school. If a shoot or pratice is that close to after school, then why not have the students leave their weapons at the club the day before. I don't know about other clubs, but at the one I shoot at, they have a secured building and alarm systems. I'm sure that a good club interested in prompoting shooting to the younger crowd would extend some sort of secure overnight storage. That is my opinion.

    John, MI
     
  18. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    High school letter sweaters or jackets only mean something while you are in High school so it is not as big of a deal as some are trying to make it. Why don't you see if you can get a sponsor to buy the team vests or jackets with their club name on it, they also can use it in the future as they continue their shooting career. They can put there patches on it and they will recieve recognition from those who understand and when they wear it to school they will certainly standout from the rest. Maybe the other students will want one and now you have a new recruit for your youth team.

    Sounds like you have board that is trying to understand but feels that their hands are tied and they have to be responsible to all in the community.

    Don
     
  19. tachyon

    tachyon Member

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    HC John, the range where we practice is 30 miles south of our school building. Two of my team members live 30 miles north of the school. It is impractical for them to drive 60 miles just to drop off their shotgun (not a weapon). They use their shotgun for hunting and for trapshooting so leaving the gun at the range is not reasonable.

    I don't understand the fear factor of an unloaded shotgun with a gun lock in a secure case locked in the trunk of a car. The "Zero tolerance" mantra repeated over and over by kool-aide drinking administrators removes any requirement that they provide logical thought and reasonable judgement to a situation.

    While the "letter" may be uncool in college it is important while in high school. I would also suggest that these athletes deserve the same recognition as those in other sports. I am certain that the girls on my team (I am in an all girls school) appreciate the fact that they can earn a letter. While they may not show their letter during college I am pretty sure that one day they will show their daughter (or son) that they earned a letter in trapshooting while in high school. The letter is a great way to promote the shooting sports.
     
  20. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    The kool-aide drinking administrators aren't calling the shots on this one. Zero tolerance is just that and it is a nationwide policy.

    But we manage to get kids from rural areas to show up to practice on time with their shotguns and not violate any laws or school policies. Some of them keep a gun with a friend or relative in town, sometimes parents bring the hardware, it doesn't take a whole lot of out of the box thinking to get over this obstacle.

    Speaking of obstacles, the kids working to get a letter in other sports have them as well ... that is part of the achievement process.
     
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