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Sandbagging

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by JOND, May 27, 2008.

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  1. JOND

    JOND TS Member

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    How much sandbagging do suspect goes on at big ATA shoots? Has anyone ever been sanctioned for this by those who run the shoots? JOND
     
  2. chessney

    chessney TS Member

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    Oh boy
    <a href="http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u89/chessney1234/?action=view&current=12105292385540.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    See what score it takes to win B,C,& D class and then answer the question. HMB
     
  4. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    None in AAA and on the 27. Most of the results in singles that look like sandbagging are the result of a classification system that uses averages that are weighted by lower scores shot during winter and windy spring weather that are not a true representation of the shooter's ability later in the season at big shoots with well set targets. Trust me, when I was a true C/B shooter I couldn't have shot a 197+ to save my life. Solution: Take the best 8 out of the last 10 scores.

    In HC, you have new shooters who are very good singles shooters stepping back to the 20-21 and winning a lot until they hit the 24.
    Solution: Start new shooters on at least the 22 and put in place a punch system that measures skill rather than luck.
     
  5. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    The big dogs love a shooter who drops targets all year and thinks he can play all the options and "turn it on" for the big one. Nine times out of ten they will grind him up like a pack of wolves.
     
  6. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    We need sandbaggers just as much as we need the gifted shooters, maybe more. All seem to worry about the "dreaded sandbagger". Ever stop to think just how much is costs to effectively sandbag?? Quit worrying about something that is not really a problem.

    Instead take your time and thoughts to assist in finding solutions that will enhance our sport and put it back on the growth curve. Said it many times, when we ran our local club, please send me all your sandbaggers, "WE NEED THE MONEY). - Jim
     
  7. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Jim is right. This sport needs many more sandbaggers chasing reductions. These are the guys that made the smaller clubs rich. After years of sandbagging they finally realize the under-handicapped 27 yarders are taking their money at most shoots and they finally grow up or quit!!
     
  8. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    No sandbagger ever cost me a dime or a target and never will .

    ALF-99
     
  9. Little Dog

    Little Dog TS Member

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    The only people who have ever beat me are sandbaggers. I get beat a lot too.
     
  10. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    I used to sandbag for about 4 years until it sprung a leak and was all over the back of my Explorer. I went to Harris bipods.
     
  11. jeffprigge

    jeffprigge Active Member

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    looked up sandbagging in dictionary it said Kentucky target management LOL
     
  12. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    I have always wondered what is the best sand to bag with and what is the best type of bag to use?

    Do you think you will get a better sandbag with the fine white play type of sand or with the more beach type river sand?

    These are things that I worry much more about when it comes to sandbaggin.
     
  13. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    At the State Shoot or any other "big" shoot you'll have to shoot a score two classes above your average to win in the lower classes. That's not due so much to "sandbaggin' as to the "known inconsistentcy" of the lower class shooters.

    John C. Saubak
     
  14. nipper

    nipper TS Member

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    i have filled plenty of sandbags in the military.

    bill
     
  15. pdq

    pdq Member

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    John:
    I think that you're on the right track, but that the real answer is not 2 classes above your level, but 3 or maybe 4. In many shoots I see reported in Trap & Field, 'D' class is frequently taken with 97 - 99.

    At the MD state shoot this past Sunday, I was shooting in C class and was beat by people posting scores of 97 and 98. Didn't bother me as it was a gorgeous day & I was with a group of friends, but statistically speaking, scores like that in D and C are hard to explain.

    Pete
     
  16. 682LINY

    682LINY Member

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    If you register in the north east in winter,,,you will be classed to low,,,,I know ,,,I did,,,I won state shoot D class 194,,,back to back 97,,,and then did it again at another state shoot,,,,dont register in the winter any more,,,and dont shoot D class any more
     
  17. JOND

    JOND TS Member

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    Apparently nobody can answer my second question.Therefore I assume sanctions have never been imposed on anyone throughout the entire history of the ATA. JOND
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Pete- Statistically, those scores would be expected. A typical shooter with an average of 90, would also have a standard deviation around the average of about +-5. That means 95% of the time his scores would be expected to be between 85 and 95. Two and a half percent of the time, his scores should be above 95.

    If a shooter has a 0.9 probability of hitting 1 target (90%)then it would be expected that he would hit 100 targets every 90 times he shoots. If 90 shooters with a 90% average enter a shoot, it would be expected that one will break 100 straight.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    People worry about sanbaggers in HANDICAP while the largest number on them are in Singles. No matter vwhat, you will nerver stop it. At the Grand one year there was a sub jr. in "D" class that ran 200 straight, then several in the shot off. Now I might beleivee a D shooter could hit 100 "IF" all the stars and planets lined up and maybe in the high end 190s, but 200 STRAIGHT and then several more!!!! I say no way Jose on that one. This is why almost ALL classes at the Grand are always won with PERFECT scores and why shooting singles unless you are AA capable is a waste of money. I still might get lucky and win something in Caps, but in Singles Forget it!
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    It seems like everyone has problems with sandbagging. Some so much so that they propose these kind of ideas.

    "Start new shooters on at least the 22 and put in place a punch system that measures skill rather than luck."

    Very good but just what would measure skill rather than luck? As far as 22 yards as a first yardage is concerned it has been done before and it didn't work then there is no reason to think it will now.

    Bob Lawless
     
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