1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

???'s for Release Trigger Users

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by WindyCity, May 13, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. WindyCity

    WindyCity TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    128
    ???

    I recently went to release triggers and have been having a few issues. If you are currently using a release, would you please help answer a few questions?

    1. Do you find you need to stay in the gun longer after the trigger is released? For some reason, I found myself dismounting the gun too quickly. If I pause after I release, it seems to be better.

    2. Did your POI change? How did it change? Up or Down? Behind or In-Front?

    3. Tell me more about the "speed" of your trigger. Someone told me about setting your release trigger speed should match how you shoot. How did you determine your correct speed?

    Sorry for asking, but these are a couple of things that are bothering me.

    Thanks for the help.

    Cory
     
  2. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    14,713
    Location:
    NW Wisconsin
    Cory. I shoot Perazzi release conversions simply because I can always match my finger release/to eye coordination by using a faster or slower trigger. Let me tell you the "Facts" as I see the problem that you encounter.

    I shoot (gun goes off) when I get into the bird and the guns momentum carries it into the proper lead. Now if I have a trigger that is too fast, the gun goes off prior to getting into that proper lead. On the other hand if I have a trigger that is too slow, the gun goes off beyond my proper lead point.

    Let me illustrate this mechanically. The newest and easiest to adjust to trigger on the market today is the Allem "Roller Release". Their system has 4 replaceable roller parts and each gives you a faster or slower release point. And the point here is you try each of those till you get to your finger release to target image point.

    So, as you describe the problem, the trigger you have is too slow because you are waiting for the gun to go off.

    Kerry Allor makes an excellent trigger and his are usually on the quicker side. He describes the sensation you are experiencing as "duration". Meaning that the trigger has a hesitation of milliseconds after to the time your brain says shoot and the gun actually going off.

    Precision triggers are known for their common set to let off point. That is 80 ounces of set to 32 ounces of let off. However Phil Kiner would prefer you have a 80 to 27 ounce let off. This illustrates how a trigger can be slower or faster.

    I shoot with All-American Jerry Demulling a few times during the season and a good apart of the winter. And I describe his shooting style as when he gets to the bird he pulls the trigger. Now if he were shooting release the same timing would need to be in place or he would miss a lot of targets due to timing difference just as you describe your dilemma.

    The good news is that it takes 5000 targets to adjust to the new release. The bad news is that it takes 5000 targets to adjust to the new release.

    OK. That is how I see it. Feel free to buzz me up anytime to talk releases. I do not claim to know more than others but I do claim to know why some experience this slowness or quick shoot phenomena. My day phone is 715-262-8556 days.

    Let me finish this by saying that it is easiest to adapt to the timing of your first release. After you adapt to your first release any change you make you will either love the trigger because it is the same timing, or hate it because it is faster or slower.

    So, what ever you do, learn a good trigger to begin with and not some "it's a release isn't it?" type trigger.

    A last illustration is 1100 triggers. Boy, some are really fast and many are really slow. Timney are often faster because of beefier springs than Spears and the like.

    Again, I entertain you to call and discuss this anytime I am by my phone during the week

    Jack.

    One last point.

    A heavier bbl will make the release seem quicker. Conversely a lighter bbl will make the release seem slower.
    Simply because you get into your target breaking zone faster or slower.

    I shoot a relatively fast trigger combined with a lighter bbl. And I use lead tennis racquet tape on the bbl (as a weighting mechanism) to fine tune the timing. And once I get the timing in place, I then go about shooting my 5000 targets.
     
  3. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,676
    MIA gave an excellent disertation on release triggers -MIA,you usually do -but he missed the first question. You feel like you are dismounting the gun because as you release your trigger finger, you are also releasing the other four fingers as well. Your grip lets loose of the gun, and the recoil and momentum pull it away from your face and shoulder, so it feels like you are dismounting early .This is a common problem with release trigger shooters.
    The logical solution is too keep a firm grip on the pistol grip, and open only the trigger finger. It takes a little practice.
     
  4. geneleroy

    geneleroy TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    201
    When I started using a release I had a tendency to 'push' the gun forward as I released the trigger. Problem for me was solved by lengthening the butt stock about 3/4 of an inch!
     
  5. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,685
    Location:
    Redding, California
    Cory.... Jack is right on the mark. I have tried several different makes of release triggers in my Perazzi's, each with a limited amount of success. I finally tried a Precision and found it to be the most reliable and consistant, but, it was a little fast for me. Jim Coons and I became good friends over the first year I had it because he and I were always talking about the triggers whenever I called him for advice. One of the problems I had was letting the release go before I reached the target, especially on the angle birds. I talked, at length, to Jim and explained the problem. He knew immediately what my problem was. My trigger came with the factory 80oz set and 32oz release. He asked me to send it to him and he would adjust it. I got it back and the set was 80oz, however, the release was now 28oz. I shot it for a while and it was better, yet it still seemed to be a little fast. I told Jim what I thought and he had me send the trigger in again. When I got it back this time, the set point was 88oz and the release was 28oz. He explained that by making the set point higher it would feel like the trigger was much slower and I might be able to get to the targets correctly. Well, this combination seems to have hit the proper "sweet" spot for me, as now the trigger functions just as it should for my style of shooting. By the way, Jim never would accept a dime for doing all this for me, that's how great he, and his triggers really are.

    One last thing regarding the set and release of your trigger. Always set the trigger in the first joint of your finger and not with the pad of your finger. This will help you with gripping the gun properly and will aid in total trigger control, which is crucial to good scores in all events. It will let you release the trigger with just your finger and will not allow you to totally relax your trigger hand.

    As for coming out of the gun too fast, dicktax also has a valid point. Try to learn to just let the trigger finger go, not relax the whole hand and arm. Keep the gun in tight to your mount even after the target is broken. A very good way to learn to stay in the gun is to keep the gun mounted after the shot and follow the largest broken piece with your gun to the ground. This will condition you to not only stay in the gun for singles and handicaps, but is a killer drill for doubles as well........ Just my experience... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  6. WindyCity

    WindyCity TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    128
    I shot at the Indiana North Zone today. First 100 singles was rough, but I straightened out at hit 96 of the 2nd hundred. I want to <b<Thank</b> everyone for the suggestions and advice. I used a little from each.

    Thanks again and I hope to see you on the line. If any of you are at the Great Lakes Grand, Ohio State, Cardinal Classic, Indiana State Shoot, stop in and say hello at our Windy City vending trailer.

    Yours in sport,

    Cory
     
  7. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    10,124
    Location:
    Northampton PA
    Some great info here guys!!
     
  8. brownk80

    brownk80 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Messages:
    640
    If you are having trouble figuring out just where and when you let off the trigger, try putting in a snap cap and shooting a round. You will start to see if you are letting off too quickly or behind or in front or stopping or any number of things that we all do from time to time. It allows you to focus on your mechanics and not think so much about letting the trigger go.

    It also takes time to learn to shoot one so be patient as well.

    Good luck,

    Brownk80
     
  9. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    I have been shooting a release for 40 years now, the standard for release triggers is 56oz set and 28 oz release, most come with close to these settings, the release should be 1/2 of the set.

    Now one other thing is the type of trigger a 1100 or 870 trigger has slow lock time compared to a Seitz or Bowen, or Alferman or Infinity all of these have fast lock times.

    What happens is with the slower lock time you actually track more into the target for good breaks.

    A lot of new Seitz and Bowen shooters will shoot behind targets when they first get them. Some will do the opposite and shoot in front of them, it is all in your style of shooting.

    The best trigger I ever shot was the Seitz triggers, set at 56 and 28 from the factory. This trigger is adjustable on the set and release, you need to know what you are doing when adjusting it.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.