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Rules Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by phirel, Apr 4, 2010.

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  1. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    It was very windy a couple of days at the Southern Grand. On bank six there is a 4 foot high chain link fence between two of the traps. Normally, this fence is well out of the target fall area. But, on my doubles squad a shooter apparently missed one of his second birds and the wind blew it over on the top of the fence and the target broke four feet above the ground. How would you score that bird?

    Pat Ireland
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Lost. It was broken by the fence, not the shot.

    Neil
     
  3. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Lost.
     
  4. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    How do you know the fence broke the clay? Pat said the clay went "over the top" of the fence? If the target didn't hit the fencing, it's a broken target, if it hit the fence,it's a lost target! As long as it breaks in the air before touching weeds,tree limbs,fences etc., it's a dead bird.

    Hap
     
  5. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    Did it hit the fence, or was blown over without hitting it? I remember at least two occasions where a bird I shot at broke late, once hit by the wad, and another time evidently weakened by a pellet and broke in half about a second after the shot. Both were correctly ruled dead.
     
  6. Bernie K

    Bernie K Member

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    I would have to agree with Hap. Niel did not say the target hit the fence. We need to know if the target cleared the fence and by how much. If it was a visible miss of the fence by feet or even inchs it's a dead target.
     
  7. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    One place I shoot occassionally there's a powerline out in the area the targets fly, it's surprising how often the targets will hit the powerline and break. As I recall they call it "lost" if you fire and miss before it hits the line and "no target" if it hits the line and breaks before you've fired. If you fired at the exact moment that the target hit the powerline and broke I would think they'd have to score it "dead" but I can't recall ever seeing that happen?

    John C. Saubak
     
  8. hoosier

    hoosier TS Member

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    Pat said it blew it over on top of the fence. I assume by this statement it hit the fence.
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    hoosier- Yes, I did say on top of the fence.

    Neil- shot does not have to break a target to be scored dead. We have both several times seen a target fly en break in half well after the shot has been fired. That should be scored dead. It could have broken due to the shot or it could have just been a cracked target that took a long time to break.

    Is the fence part of the ground?

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Hoosier, how can you assume that?

    Pat wrote;

    "the wind blew it over on the top of the fence and the target broke four feet above the ground."

    The target he speaks of is in the past tense in that wording concerning the fence? To me, that means it went over the top some distance and broke about 4 feet off the ground!

    Pat, yes, the fence is considered a part of the ground in this instance just the same as a 4 foot high weed or bush would!

    Hap
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Hap - I was not as clear as I should have been. The target hit the vertical pipe holding up the fence. Is a four foot weed part of the ground or is it "fructis naturalis" growing from the ground? You know I enjoy splitting hairs. Now I am splitting split hairs.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Pat, if you will re-read my post, you will notice that I did not say shot has to "break a target to be scored dead." What I said was that according to your post, the fence broke it. That's all I claimed and did not venture farther into shot/target/scoring theory.

    Neil
     
  13. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Pat said;

    "hoosier- Yes, I did say on top of the fence. "

    Pat. No, you didn't. You said this;

    "the wind blew it over on the top of the fence"

    Pat, are you having fun? Still got cabin fever? Spring is here.
     
  14. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Pat, you're attempting to split frog hair now!:) The clay hits ANY part of the fencing, it's a lost target, period.

    I once refereed a shoot-off when a target was really dusted and no discernible piece fell off. I watched the target intently and it broke in half a few feet off the ground, dead bird was my call and rightfully so!

    Hap
     
  15. warren

    warren Member

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    If the target hit any part of the fence it's, lost, if it didn't and it broke before it hit the ground it's dead, sailing over the fence or any other object is irevalent. I've seen delayed breaks a few time especially in doubles and they were always called dead. What was it called?

    warren
     
  16. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Outside interference, repeat the pair, first bird is dead if it was broken on the first pair. HMB
     
  17. hoosier

    hoosier TS Member

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    I guess it depends what part of the country you are from. When I read Pat's statement I clearly understand that the target hit the top of the fence. I guess it is like in some parts of the country people say pop while in other parts of the country people say soda. I think it is understanding the brogue that is being spoken. jmho.
     
  18. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    I don't think so.

    He can't be grammarically incorrect in one moment, and then grammarically superior the next moment. Witness;

    "Is a four foot weed part of the ground or is it "fructis naturalis" growing from the ground?".
     
  19. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    feign - To give a mental existence to something that is not real or actual.
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    HMB- Your post is clearly counter to the rules. There is no outside interference allowed if you shoot. If the pair is shot over, it makes no difference if the first bird was dead or lost.

    longshooter- My first description may not have been as clear as it should have been, but it was grammatically correct.

    Pat Ireland
     
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