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Rules question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by ric3677, Jul 4, 2009.

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  1. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone point out in the rules book the rule that says, "the singles event has to be completed before the handicap event can take off?" One of the guys in Billings said that the new ATA prez said this.
    I am in total disagreement.

    Rick in Mt.
     
  2. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    I used to rodeo a bit back when ol' Art Ruekoff was the chute boss at Brockway Dairy Days.........if Art figgered things were goin' too slow he'd just start turnin' out Bull Riders into the arena before the Ladies Barrel Race was completed.......sure made them girls nervous, LOL

    John C. Saubak
     
  3. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Just because he sez it don't make it a rule.
     
  4. jbrucejr

    jbrucejr Member

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    As far as I can see, the only place this matters is Handicap Marathons - the rule book addresses these. You need to finish one event so that shooters can get yardage punches BEFORE starting the next event - where they may be further back than the previous event.

    As far as finishing singles before handicap - I could not find anything about this in the book.

    Here is a clip from Section VI-A:
    When a Handicap marathon event consisting of more than 100 targets is
    shot, each 100-target sub-event must not begin prior to the awarding of
    earned yardage based on the previous 100 targets. Shooters earning
    yardage must shoot subsequent sub-events from the new yardage.

    I pasted in a link to the rule book above.

    JB
     
  5. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    I know all about the handicap needing to be done so the punches can take place but I had never heard of the other thing. Maybe Neil can chime in?

    Rick in Mt.
     
  6. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    I've shot at a small club that does exactly that, putting out a handicap squad as soon as the last singles squad gets finished on the first field. Sure speeds things up and it's nice to go home early.
     
  7. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    ric3677

    "One of the guys in Billings said that the new ATA prez said this. I am in total disagreement."

    Rick could you elaborate on in what way you are in disagreement? I am having a little trouble trying to figure out just what the conflict is.

    I can tell that someone wants to star the handicap while the singles is still shooting but I don't understand why you would take exception to that. This may stem from the lack of detail of what is going to be done that you feel would be of benefit to the club or the shooters.

    The rule that has been sighted here is designed to close an event. Not to stop the next event from starting.

    Bob Lawless
     
  8. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    The only problem that can arise is if a shooter on one of the last 1st event squads is on the 1st or 2nd squad of the 2nd event. We eliminate that problem by taking a 45 minute lunch break between the 1st (singles) & 2nd (h'cap)events.

    Eric
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    There is no rule that requires one event to be completed prior to the next event beginning. Simultaneous events, especially involving doubles, are common. At a larger shoot, waiting until the last squad completes an event while 10 traps set empty is a great waste of time.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Here in the New England in the winter there used to be a league That was called the Traveling Winter.(catchy name wouldn't you say) It was shot a a participating on a revolving schedule.

    Four trap field were used to shoot the format. The first two traps were singles the third was handicap and the fourth was doubles. You shot 50 singles 25 handicap and 15 pair of doubles for a possible score of 105.

    When shooting handicap there were squads shooting singles on one side of you and doubles on the other side of you and I never saw a problem or heard any complaints about long handicap squads on one side or the other so I don't feel it would be a problem.

    Bob Lawless
     
  11. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, Let me see if I can explain what I am asking for. This isn't just another shoot. It's our State Shoot, and we can get upwards of 50 squads and are running on only 12 traps. We have a couple of days of 300 birds, so it can become a timing thing. In my experience ( I helped run the last two State Shoots in Great Falls) if you stop between singles and handicap you loose over an hour. This isn't that much for most shoots, but in Billings this time of the year, there happens to be lots of thunderstorms with lots of lightning, which requires the shutdown of the line. Add this all together and all of a sudden you are running events the next day and not getting the shoot done. Keep in mind they shoot to the east.....not too many people want to start at 8 shooting into that sun.

    Personally I would like to see the shoot run non stop. They still have to shut the line down to change to Dbls, and that alone will take almost 1 1/2 hours. (they are shooting 50 a trap and that ties up the line.)

    All I was looking for, was the rule..and I can see now, it doesn't exist. Breaks are nice, but you get those at the State shoot anyway.

    See you all there in a few days.......Rick in Mt.
     
  12. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Rick so you would like to do what that someone thinks conflicts with the handicap?

    Bob Lawless
     
  13. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    Bob, I just want the shoot to keep on keeping on. In otherwords, no stops. That way you don't have to run someone down on the first squad because they didn't know it was time to go? Since I am squading I have made sure nobody on the last squad out is on the first squad out.

    See ya all in Billings.

    Last post.......Rick in Mt.
     
  14. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Hesitate for one squad, leaving a blank between the 16's and caps.
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Rick- I totally agree with you. Keeping the shoot moving is important. If you call, or post on the squad board, the first handicap squad while the last singles squad is shooting, by the time the handicap squad arrives, the singles squad will be done. If the first handicap squad is long yardage, they may want to wait until the adjacent squad has cleared the second trap. That is OK and at least they will be on the bench.

    Another suggestion. If the shoot is scheduled to begin at 9:00 AM and the National Anthem is played at 8:45 and the shooters called to the line, they will begin shooting at 9:00 AM. If the National Anthem is played at 9:00 AM, shooting will not begin until 9:15. The 15 minutes saved equated to around 75 man hours each day.

    Pat Ireland
     
  16. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    One of the problems at Billings is, the traps face east so none of them grumpy ol' buggers wanna' shoot before 10:00 am
     
  17. Leanne

    Leanne TS Member

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    If I'm not mistaken, Brockway Dairy Day would be takin' place right about.....now....
    They are probably about in the middle of the bull doggin!
     
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