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Rules Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by tom berry, Feb 21, 2009.

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  1. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    I was attending a coaching clinic yesterday when the subject of allowing Non Registered shooters to participate at the same time as Registered shooters at an ATA event. I stated that current ATA didn't permit this. I didn't have a rule book on me at the time, but now I see it's IV.G.4.

    So last night I'm reading T&F and see this months "house rules" column and this specific topic is one of the subject rules. Much to my surprise, Dave Kaiser states that it would be acceptable under certain conditions.

    Perhaps the current rule should be reviewed and amended to reflect this new position and clarify that squads must be all reg or non reg shooters.

    This might be a good way to attract new ATA shooters by allowing them to "participate" at shoot but not IN a shoot.
     
  2. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    Tom, it's that way only in a Big 50 event, and I suspect the purpose it was written that way is expressly to attract new shooters.
     
  3. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Pocatello,

    I agree with you. But that's not what is written in Trap and Field. I will copy the text below.

    From Feb 2009 Trap and Field - House Rules column Pg 46

    ...now we've scheduled a couple of cold weather weekend shoots that are not 'Big 50', the first one being this weekend--no trophies or anything, just honors only. In any case, I just got off the phone with one of our long time shooters, Ned Nitpiker, and he said his squad was going to shoot but he and another shooter on the squad don't want to register their targets. Can we do that? Can we do that? It seems like there is a rule about this.

    The rule IV G 4 is cited.

    The column continues...

    Harry reviewed the rule with Bill and then said, "as you can see, Bill, under the rule during a normal registered tournament you may not squad those registering targets with folks shooting for practice. The only exceptions are for "Big 50" events and registered leauges. Anyway, that means if Ned and his buddies want to shoot your weekend event, they will all have to register.

    Bill thought for a moment and then said, "since this is an 'honors only' fun event, is there anything wrong with allowing saquads who are not registered to shoot?"

    Harry replied, "So longs as no squad has both registered and practice shooteres on the same squad, I don't really see a problem. Folks shoot practice all the time during shoots, and it's invicible to the ATA.

    The article goes on to state to make sure everyone understands what is going on and that no blended squads are formed. Also, that the shooters must declare prior to shooting whether they are registering or not and must stick with that decision.

    Now, maybe I'm misunderstanding this article, but it seems to me that Dave Kaiser says it's ok to allow practice squads on the same traps, shooting the same program as the registered shooters.
     
  4. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    tom berry as far as the Big fifty rule is concerned. It says.

    "Similar to the registered league program, registered and non-registered
    shooters may shoot at the same time and on the same squad"

    That is big fifty but It would seem that Mr. Kaiser is concerned he appears to be saying that as long as all the shooters on a particular squad are shooting practice. Yet I am not sure that is what he means.

    I know that at the clubs I have been involved in in ATA competition would never allow practice on a program trap during an ATA event. It is however allowed at anytime on a none program trap(those not being use for ATA events)

    Bob Lawless
     
  5. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    I think Dave Kaiser is saying just that - you can send a "practice" squad out to a trap during an ATA shoot and as long as none of them are shooting registered targets it would be within the rules. I don't believe there are any rules that specify that traps need to be used for practice or registered or that they can't be mixed. I suppose at a small range, one or two traps, it would not be unusual to send out a mixture of registered and non-registered squads. I've never seen it done, but it sounds like it's legal.

    Scott
     
  6. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Scott, you could be correct, but I read it as a group could shoot, say 100 16yd on a non registered basis.

    Bob, I get what the Big 50 program is and that it's allowable to have NR shooters participate during those events.
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Scott- You are absolutely correct. It would be very unusual, but legal, at a large registered shoot for the management to reserve a few squads for non registered practice.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Thanks Pat. I guess I've always interpreted that rule differently, and incorrectly.

    Tom
     
  9. rmngtngrl

    rmngtngrl TS Member

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    This question has come up lately because of the SCTP state shoots I beleive....I guess now that if a team wants to go and participate at the SCTP grand it must register their state shoot targets ( I say state shoot but I think the wording is state quailifer)....if a team (squad) does not feel that they are going to be competitive they do not have to register their targets...so the question has been raised what to do about Individuals that want to register their targets and those that don't shooting on the same squad..I was always under the impression that this practice was not allowed ( I think this is referred to as pacing) so now the rule is trying to be read as many ways as it can be.... I personally don't think registered and non registered should shoot together.

    Kym
     
  10. Clay KillR

    Clay KillR TS Member

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    Without nit-picking the rules to death, I see no problem with the Big 50 shoots. That's more or less what they were desinged for, to attract and encouraged new shooters.

    Anything else, pay your $20 and join the team, no more lame, cheap, excuses. The cost of membership is a small fraction compared to firearms, shells, targets, other equipment and driving to shoots. The ATA needs our support to put on registered shoots and grow the sport. Man Up!
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Kym- Cannot shoot on the same squad.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    I think it has been answered several times correctly but still doesn't seem to be getting through.

    Except for Big 50s, ATA does not allow practice shooters and registered shooters on the same squad, period. That is the end of the ATA rule.

    It is up to shoot management if they want to send a squad of practice shooters out during a registered shoot. As I said, ATA rules do not prohibit this, but it is generally not done and could complicate things. Purely management's discretion on this.
     
  13. rmngtngrl

    rmngtngrl TS Member

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    Thanks Pat... I knew the answer I was just stating what is being bounced around....and what I have answered those asking....

    Kym Hughes
     
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