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Rules Question

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Bavaria-Grade, Apr 12, 2008.

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  1. Bavaria-Grade

    Bavaria-Grade Member

    Joined:
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    What is the correct scoring in doubles when a shooter only loads one shell? If he breaks the first bird and gets a click on the second bird since there was not a shell in the gun, what is the scoring? Is it dead and lost or repeat the pair?

    Several years ago I was involved in a doubles shootoff. My opponent loaded only the bottom barrel of his O/U called for a pair and broke the first bird. It was initially scored dead and lost. With that scoring I won the shootoff by one bird. After I was declared the winner the club management changed the ruling and called us back to the line to finish the shootoff on a miss and out basis. I missed my the second bird on my first pair and lost.

    Just curious but what would the correct ruling have been?
     
  2. mobear

    mobear Member

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    From ATA rulebook:

    2. A contestant shall be allowed 2 failures to fire, for any reason other
    than stated in Paragraph C., 2., above, during each Doubles sub-event
    if the Failure to Fire occurs when the contestant attempts to shoot
    the first target of a Doubles pair, or when the contestant attempts
    to shoot the second target of a Doubles pair after the first target has
    been fired at and broken and would have been scored “DEAD”. When
    the first target of a Doubles pair is fired at and missed and that target
    would be scored “LOST”, there shall be no allowable Failure to Fire
    at the second target. (See exception in VII., E., 11., f.) When a pair is
    ruled lost there shall be no “Failure to Fire” charged. When the first or
    second allowable Failure to Fire occurs in any Doubles sub-event, the
    contestant shall be allowed to call for and fire at another pair of targets
    and the result of the shots at the new pair will be scored in accordance
    with these Official Rules.
     
  3. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    1,001
    It is a F. T. F.. Shoot them over.
     
  4. Derek

    Derek TS Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    How can it be a F T F when he only loaded one shell .

    If he loaded two shells and the second didnt go of that is a F T F .

    One shell is the shooters mistake .Lost bird

    Derek
     
  5. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    Sorry, Derek, you're wrong.

    "A contestant shall be allowed 2 failures to fire, for ANY REASON other than stated in Paragraph C., 2., above...." (emphasis added; C., 2. says a target's lost "When a whole target appears promptly after a contestant’s recognizable command and is within the legal limits of flight and the contestant voluntarily does not fire....").

    As long as the failure is involuntary, a shooter gets 2 FTF's per subevent. Flinches, for example, are involuntary.
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Derek- The second barrel failed to fire because a shell was not loaded in it. This is clearly a Failure to Fire. This rule was changed a few years ago. Prior to the F to F rule, it would have been dead/lost. Also, four or more years ago, the management could make almost any ruling they wanted to in a shoot off. Shoot off targets are not registered and until 4 years ago (I think) shoot off targets did not have to conform to any ATA regulations.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    What a wonderful sport. No wonder it is DOA. HMB
     
  8. Derek

    Derek TS Member

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    OK ,I am from Australia .

    I stand corected but Down under I would still say lost as shooters mistake as he didnt load a shell .

    Derek
     
  9. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Gee Pat, it sounds like the years must be flying by for you too! That rule that was "changed a few years ago" was a lot longer ago than it seems.
     
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