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Rules question--Withdrawing! Answer!

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by cunninmp, May 23, 2011.

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  1. cunninmp

    cunninmp Member

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    Hi Everyone,
    Well I've looked through the ATA Rules and cannot find this.
    So in January I was at an ATA shoot. Was on Station 1 for singles.
    Trigger was malfunctioning and appeared to be bothering my teammates.
    I finished the trap and withdrew from the match. Went in and told
    the ATA Rep I withdrew and why. Was told no problem.
    Late last Friday I checked my scores prior to going to an ATA shoot over
    the weekend.
    My 16 yard average was way down. Checked my scores and saw that they
    took my trap 1 score and applied it over 100 birds instead of 25.
    What is the ATA rule for this??????
    Thanks for any help.

    Mike Cunningham

    ATA Life Vet
     
  2. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Mike..

    Call your Delegate and have him/her make the correction. The target count should have been for the "sub-event" only.

    Curt
     
  3. cunninmp

    cunninmp Member

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    Curt,
    Will give that a try.

    Thanks,

    Mike C.
     
  4. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but it should be out of 50
     
  5. GoldEx

    GoldEx Active Member

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    Why would it be out of 50 unless they were shooting 10 per post?

    Jeff
     
  6. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    ATA Rules, Section VII, C 4:

    "When a contestant voluntarily withdraws from, or is otherwise disqualified, and takes no further part in a sub-event after having fired at 1 or more targets of a sub-event and does not fire at all the targets in the sub-event, the referee/scorer shall rule all targets not fired upon “LOST” targets and they shall be scored and reported accordingly."
     
  7. missed some

    missed some TS Member

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    out of 25 unless 10 per post, then out of 50...
     
  8. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    I mean this in a good way but you guys know everything. I know its all in the Rules Book but reading that little book can sometimes be a little overwhelming. I find some of the info hard to understand until it is put into a useful practical application such as this.
     
  9. recurvyarcher

    recurvyarcher Well-Known Member

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    When my gun broke at shoots (a couple of times), they only scored me on the box that I was shooting and those prior, not the entire 100. So does a gun break constitute a "voluntary withdrawal"?
     
  10. cunninmp

    cunninmp Member

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    OK--so C-4 is slightly confusing.

    But it looks like I should have only been scored for that sub-event.

    Still the rules are not perfectly clear.

    I have to agree with Recurvyarcher.

    But, now what do I do. Maybe call ATA and pose the question???

    If I was a sandbagger I'd say let it stand, But I'm not.

    Just want whats fair.

    Mike C.
     
  11. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Have you gotten in touch with your delegate, as was suggested earlier?
     
  12. Jim Porter

    Jim Porter Well-Known Member

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    Looking at the post replies from above, now I have a question or two.
    1-On the rule quote above. It says the count applies to ALL THE TARGETS. Is that 100? or 200 hundred? or just the 25?
    2-How is the average applied? Percentage of the 25 hit in that round?
     
  13. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    Targets are compiled by sub-event.

    If you break 24 out of 25 in the first 25 target sub-event, and break 3 in the second 25 target sub-event before voluntarily withdrawing, the ATA would receive your score as 27/50.

    Basically, if you don't finish the sub-event(s)for any reason not due to shoot management, you've withdrawn.

    If your gun breaks down, or you're ill, you can normally finish the sub-event(s) on the make-up field, as outlined in the shoot program. If you don't, you're considered to have withdrawn.
     
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Here just to complicate matter a little more this is what the whole rule reads,

    "4. When a contestant voluntarily withdraws from, or is otherwise disqualified, and takes no further part in a sub-event after having fired at 1 or more targets of a sub-event and does not fire at all the targets in the sub-event, the referee/scorer shall rule all targets not fired upon “LOST” targets and they shall be scored and reported accordingly. When the shooter is prevented by reasons beyond his/her control from completing a sub-event, the scores for that partial sub-event shall not be recorded or reported. Example: shooters have shot 61 targets of a 100-target event when a storm permanently stops shooting. The management should report the scores for the first 50 targets only"

    From that it might appear that the 27/50 wouldn't be correct either!!!!

    Bob Lawless
     
  15. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    Bob

    The 27/50 example refers to VOLUNTARY withdrawals, not decisions made by shoot management, such as ending an event early due to inclement weather.

    Let's say you broke 25 targets in the first 25 target sub-event, 25 in the second, and the first 11 in the third when a rain delay occurs. If the rest of the event is eventually canceled, your score would go to the ATA as 50/50. However, if the event later resumes, but you aren't there for whatever reason, your score would be reported as 61/75.
     
  16. quartering

    quartering Active Member

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    the ata didn't have a response to your query? good luck with it
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Tom where did you find that in the rules?????

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    Bob, that's exactly what Section VII, C, 4 says:

    "When a contestant voluntarily withdraws from, or is otherwise disqualified, and takes no further part in a sub-event after having fired at 1 or more targets of a sub-event and does not fire at all the targets in the sub-event, the referee/scorer shall rule all targets not fired upon “LOST” targets and they shall be scored and reported accordingly. When the shooter is prevented by reasons beyond his/her control from completing a sub-event, the scores for that partial sub-event shall not be recorded or reported. Example: shooters have shot 61 targets of a 100-target event when a storm permanently stops shooting. The management should report the scores for the first 50 targets only;"
     
  19. cunninmp

    cunninmp Member

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    So---still confused. I'll write my delegate and see what he say's.
    I would have thought the rules would be more concise/explanatory
    on this matter.
    I know I'm not the first.

    Mike C.
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Tom this is the only thing I have against the ATA rules nothing is written in plain and complete text. It is vague and open to interpretation if they spent as much time making the first half of that rule as clear as the last half.

    Then everyone would know what it says not just those that have been involved with running ATA events. As an example

    "after having fired at 1 or more targets of a sub-event and does not fire at all the targets in the sub-event, the referee/scorer shall rule all targets not fired upon “LOST” targets"

    Now Tom I see that rule as saying ALL THE TARGETS not fired on. Not all the targets in that sub-event. It isn't clear it is vague as are many of the rule that shooters have to deal with shoot after shoot.

    They have no trouble making rules every other year that totally piss off shooters. The latest that comes to mind is the change in the Category rules.

    Now you say that is exactly what the rule is saying. I say it is no where near as clear as the last scenario in that rule the section about beyond his/her control.

    So I see it quite differently than you seem to.

    Bob Lawless
     
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