1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Rules question on reductions

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by NintyT, Sep 5, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. NintyT

    NintyT Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    262
    A friend just called, while on his way to a shoot, asking if his reduction is still good. He received the reduction in late July, from 24 to 23. The rule book says if you don't shoot registered targets within 30 days it is considered refused. He shot at the Grand on August 6 and 7, but had to shoot penalty yardage, 25 yards, due to lack of targets. So, is the reduction still good, since he didn't shoot any targets from his reduced yardage within 30 days? I'm just not sure. Steve j
     
  2. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,539
    Location:
    Oxford MA
    Just my opinion I think you or he should call or email the ATA. Ask for or address your mail to Kathy Key and ask her to check it out for you/him.

    I put the website address above that gives all needed contact information for ATA

    Bob Lawless
     
  3. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,351
    Location:
    Indiana
    I have never heard of the 30 day rule but found it in the rule book. I thought a reduction was a reduction unless refused. Learn something everyday. Page 67 of the newest online rulebook explains it.
     
  4. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,301
    You never heard of the "30 day" rule because it doesn't exist.
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    Call the ata. The reduction should still be good as those were penalty targets.
     
  6. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,474
    The way I read it the only fly in the ointment MAY be if he shot more than 500 targets at penalty yardage. However, there is no mention of penalty targets so It is like he didn't shppt any targets from his new yardage which,IMHO, fits the 2nd exception. JRM
     
  7. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3,049
    Location:
    Minnysoda
    That's a pretty good question Steve.

    I think that after a person had the reduction and shot at anything besides the reduced yardage, you have declined the reduction.
     
  8. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    No rick. Penalty yardage is assigned by shoot mgmt in lieu of your correct yardage. It would only be an issue if the penalty yardage shot was less than his assigned yardage.
     
  9. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    5,289
    NintyT, read the rule agin SLOWLY. It does not say "if you don't shoot registered targets within 30 days it is considered refused." Read it in it's entireity and let it all soak in.
     
  10. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    3,049
    Location:
    Minnysoda
  11. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,390
    Since nobody is coming out and saying it, yes, the reduction is still good. The rule's wording, or punctuation at least, should be corrected, but the reduction is still available to him.
     
  12. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,413
    Location:
    Chicago area
    Here's the rule, cut/paste from the ATA rulebook.

    11. Upon receipt of a “1000 target review reduction” the shooter has
    one month to take that reduction. Before the Central Handicap
    Committee deems that “void”
    a.) Special Circumstances:
    1. Shooter is obviously shooting out of state
    2. Shooter has not shot any targets since the review
    3. If shooter has shot more than 500 targets from old yardage
    the reduction is void.

    If you take the rule literally, item a2 would make the reduction void for the shooter in question. Per the OP, the shooter shot targets at the Grand. 2a says shooter "has not shot any targets since the review", but in this case the shooter has shot targets. It does not mention an exception for targets shot at penalty yardage.

    Again, that's a literal interpretation and might not be what was intended for a case such as this. When the shooter showed up at the Grand they could have taken the reduction because even though it had been more than 30 days they had not shot any targets. However, because they had to shoot penalty they could not shoot at the reduced yardage so they were never able to take the reduction and then subsequently shot targets which eliminates the special circumstance in 2a.
     
  13. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,542
    Location:
    HELL, MICHIGAN
    The ata automatically gives the reduction first. You have to do those things to void it.
     
  14. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,390
    Scot:

    As I said the rule is poorly written. a2 and a3 seem to be mutually exclusive, it makes no sense. If you can shoot 500 targets from the old yardage, what in the world does a2 mean? The whole second sentence, if that is a sentence, needs work. EDIT: I guess I see what was intended here, although many will read it more literally than what I think was intended. Obviously, if you haven't shot at all, you can't take the reduction within 30 days, so A2 taken by itself makes sense, still allowing the reduction. Also, it is clear you could have shot at your old yardage between the time the reduction was issued and the time you actually see the new card, so A3 makes sense by itself. The problem is in trying to read it too literally and saying A2 is not applicable when you shot only at penalty, thus denying the reduction. This doesn't seem reasonable considering A3 does allow the reduction even after shooting targets at the old yardage.
    Since the guy only shot penalty, he should still get his reduction.
     
  15. Psycho

    Psycho TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    109
    What yardage did he declare at the grand? 24 or 23.
     
  16. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,629
    Location:
    HI
    My take is that the reduction to the 23 is good, unless he got a punch at the Grand from the 25.

    Also agree with Ivanhoe, he needs to check with the ATA is he is still entitled to the reduction to the 23 yard line.

    Jason
     
  17. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,969
    He can look at the shooter information link from the ATA website and then click on the detail area and it will show the reduction and the reduction refusal if that was applied. In my own case during Target Year 2010, I was granted a reduction but before I even got the new card in the mail I traveled out of state to attend a State Shoot and registered 500 Handicap targets at my old yardage. I then noticed on my shooter information record that my reduction was made void because of the targets I shot at my old yardage. If I did not access the shooter information area I would not have known about the reduction getting voided by the ATA computer.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.