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Rule ?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by phirel, Jul 27, 2008.

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  1. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    A 26 yard shooter is only down 2 birds when he walks to his last post. A thunder storm requires management to stop the shoot for a short time. When the shoot resumes, the shooter discoverers that the 26 yard pad he has to shoot his last targets from is covered with mud and a bit of water from the storm (the walkway is not level and the 26 yard pad is lower than the 25 and 27 pad). The mud is slippery and could present a safety hazard along with personal comfort and cleanliness problems. For these reasons, he elects to shoot his last 5 targets from the 25 3/4 yard line. He breaks the targets for the high score of 98. A protest is filled with the management. What happens to this shooter.

    Pat Ireland
     
  2. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Oh this oughtta be good Pat!

    It's Sunday, last day of the EZ and you're starting this. Tsk, tsk, there's gonna be alot of critters slithering out from under their rocks to answer this.

    Curt

    And this problem did occur at the '06 EZ in NY......
     
  3. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Since the "fair platform" of yon has disappeared, Pat, I think the shooter can't do this and the scorer should not have credited him with any dead targets shot from the 25 + and could not have shot from the higher 27 as well.

    If he had gotten a ruling from shoot management before shooting he'd have a case; agreement after shooting is more dicey.

    Neil
     
  4. Rick (Pa)

    Rick (Pa) TS Member

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    Another rules question. (this one is real) a shooter shoots at 50 targets. breaks 46 a thunderstorm comes in he runs for cover. then decides not to shoot at the last 50 targets. is his score counted as 46x50 or 46x100 thanks. Rick
     
  5. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    "What happens to this shooter."

    He gets classed in with all the other lazy fat butts who won't lift a finger to help out. In this case cleaning some mud off the walkways.
     
  6. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    I have to say I would have shot from the muddy 26 yard line without asking for any consideration. If, however, shoot management offered me some choices before shooting that last station, I would have listened. But that doesn't answer the quiz - my rule book is out in the truck and it's too early to walk that far. How about, may shoot from a more suitable place but never less than his assigned yardage....Bob Dodd
     
  7. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Pat:

    I'll be interested in other interpretations but I'm not aware of any rule that allows a shooter to fire from an incorrect handicap yardage - not even if shoot management consents in advance.

    If I were an official making the call, my first choice option would be to allow an exception to the that part of Section VII, subsection E., item 10 which requires touching or staddling the imaginary running thru the center of the trap and extending thru the center of the post. In other words I would require the shooter to stand at his/her 26 yards but off to the left or right of the post in order to avoid the mud/water.

    The next option would be to move the entire squad to another trap for their final five targets.

    The last option would be an attempt at 'correcting' the deficiency by creating a safe and stable temporary post with some item or material (maybe a pallet) directly on top of the problem post.

    edited addition:

    All of these options are predicated on the assumption that the post creates a legitimate safety issue or shooter disadvantage which can't be resolved with a broom or shovel.

    sissy
     
  8. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Pat, you say the pad "was covered with mud and a bit of water"? Sounds like a chance for a good-ole-boy Redneck trapshooter to be in his natural environment here. Just take off his shoes, roll up the britches legs and keep on shootin. Where is the problem?

    "Course, I bet that's not the answer you were looking for.

    Gne J
     
  9. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Now Gene, since I said I'd have shot in the mud, I wasn't suggesting I might be a good-ole-boy Redneck - well, hey, maybe I am after all....Bob Dodd
     
  10. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Since it's totally acceptable at times to shoot the entire 100 from one trap, I'd move that squad to another trap. Close that trap for long yardage shooters if there was a 26 yard shooter involved in the next squad? The shooter in question can't move forward or backward without a rule violation? Management rules for safety reasons. Straight from under the rock. Hap
     
  11. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Reshoot all five targets.

    Special sanction could have been granted by scorer or management had a request been asked but he must stand behind the correct firing mark for his distance ie 26 yd.

    I agree that a dood ole red neck would have never given alittle mud and or water a thought and got right in the middle of it. Yes I have on numerous occasions.

    Pat you have a pm from me. I don't have your email address anymore for some reason.
     
  12. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Management can't change the rules! Right? HMB
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Would standing on a slippery platform pose a safety concern to the other shooters on the squad?

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    Pat Ireland - I think you are hanging out with too many lawers. The rule book is very clear. DQ. Shooters must shoot at assigned/correct yardage. You have created a situation where the shooter excersized poor judgement and his squad and the puller did nothing at the time, but instead allowed things to complete and then file a protest. Should never have gone that far.
     
  15. chessney

    chessney TS Member

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    Just like in golf. A player may move his ball from standing water but no closer to the hole! ...Ziggy
     
  16. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    With all the thousands and thousands of dollars spent on a place to shoot registered trap and the club/management doesn't have a 20 dollar squeegee? Isn't safety first the number one priority in trap shooting? Wayne
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    According to the rulebook exceptions to part of the rule may be granted but not for feet behind the yardage marker.

    "When firing, the contestant’s feet must be behind the firing mark
    at 16-yards, or behind the mark for the Handicap yardage assigned to
    him/her, depending upon the event being participated in. The contestant
    must stand with at least one foot on an imaginary line drawn through
    the center of the trap and continuing through the center of the post, or
    have one foot on each side of the line. Exceptions to the rule contained
    in the second sentence of this paragraph may be granted by the referee/
    scorer due to inequalities in the shooting platform,"

    The case scenario explained by Pat says the 26 yd pad is slippery and could be a potential safety hazard to the shooter and anyone around him. This rule also says.

    "If a contestant fails to follow this rule in its entirety, the referee/scorer shall rule any target fired at and broken a “NO TARGET,” but if fired at and
    missed, the referee/scorer shall rule the target “LOST.” For example,
    targets shot at and broken from the wrong yardage marker must be
    shot over, targets shot at from the wrong yardage marker and missed
    will be scored “LOST.”

    There are circumstances here that must be ruled on before it can be decided "What happens to this shooter."

    The rule says that "Exceptions" to the rule may be granted by the referee/scorer. It doesn't say that the shooter can decide where to stand. By the same token the referee/scorer was obviously out to lunch when the shooter move across the line. Once you get by that, If you look at the rest of the rule his last 5 targets should be NO TARGET and he should have to reshoot them. That is the way I am reading the rule.

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    I think you are reading the wrong rule Mr. Lawless. Section XII, Disciplinary action, disqualification and reinstatement, section B. Disqualification, subparagraph d. if the shooter fails to shoot at his/her correct yardage.

    the lead-in paragraph is "A shooter may be disqualified for an event or for a whole tournament at any time by shoot management ..... whenever the following prohibited conduct is brought to their attention."

    Mr. Ireland says a protest was filed. This means shoot management has something brought to their attention. to me, this means they should DQ the shooter.
     
  19. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    I vote with Bob.

    Don
     
  20. Jim e

    Jim e TS Member

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    i do to.
     
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