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Rule Clarification Attention: Neil Winston

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by K80 Hal, Apr 3, 2008.

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  1. K80 Hal

    K80 Hal TS Member

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    While attending a large shoot, I was shooting a 16 yd. event with 4 contestants
    Post 1 was empty, so Post 2 became squad leader. We completed the first 25 and
    the contestant on post 5 told the scorer he had been squaded for post 1. The
    scorer called for the line referee. He was informed of the situation. The referee told the scorer to move post 5 contestant's score to post 1 on the sheet and the contestant to start the next trap on post 1 and assume the duties of squad leader for the rest of the event. Was this the correct ruling?
    Rule Section IV D.2. and VII E.4
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    If that was the decision of the referee, it was the correct ruling.

    This sort of thing happens now and then. Shoot management is given wide latitude in applying common sense to odd situations like this.

    Neil
     
  3. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Regarding section IV D.2 - did the referee or scorer know a contestant was in a wrong position?

    Regarding section VII E.4 - did the shooters shoot out of order (post 2 then post 3 then post 5 then post 4) or did they shoot in proper order and all shoot 5 from each post?

    Did this really make a big deal for the event or is it just something to possibly try and nit pick about. As long as all shooters shot 5 targets from each post and that they all shot in order it really does not matter or does it? Would it make the targets fly different if nobody started on post 1?
     
  4. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    I like how once again it is stated that "Shoot management is given wide latitude in applying common sense to odd situations like this."

    Once again it is up to the interpretation of the people running the event and there really is no set rule to follow.

    Neil if you were to follow the rule book to the exact way it is written what should they have done?
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The exact way it should have been done is the way it was done. Or any other common-sense solution they may have come up with.

    Neil
     
  6. j l c

    j l c TS Member

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    You best not do this at the Grand where they do not care waht your name is but know what post you are on is very important. I can not imagine the mess. Jerry
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Do not do what? All shoot management did was put the guy on the position the computer expected him to be on. And that, my guess is, is why they did it.

    But still, there's plenty of white space on any scoresheet for the squad, the scorer, the referee to make notes to the sheet-checker and score inputter at any shoot from a two-trap local to the Grand American. People can figure this kind of thing out.

    Neil
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    OK, what _should_ shoot management have done? Specifically.

    Neil
     
  9. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Neil ignore the babble as that is all it is.

    Don
     
  10. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Since the shooter was not on his/her assigned position all targets for him/her should have been declared lost until she/he began shooting on the correct position.

    I wonder what type of shoot management it was that did not at least ask the squad on the line if they knew where the squad leader was or at least check to try and find the shooter by name. Also where was the shooter from post 5 during all of this and/or if there was not supposed to be a shooter on post 5 just who was the scorer scoring when he/she was scoring for post 5?

    Granted the management did make the proper logical call but still there are many strange things that could have avoided such a hilarious screw up if they had done, well it aint there fault so it must be the shooters fault.
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    OK, Mr ®, the squad leader gets 25 losses. And the rest of the squad too, of course, since they shot out of turn.

    Tomorrow we'd see here on TS.com three new threads entitled, as one is today

    "Sorry! but I won't be coming back"

    And I wouldn't blame them.

    What's wrong with making "the proper logical" and how can there be a "but" after that?

    Neil
     
  12. Onceabum

    Onceabum TS Member

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    Lumper...you're an idiot! You disagree with everything.
     
  13. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Had this happen at the SWG two years ago . . .

    Went to my post for the first 25 of handicap, and I had 3 yards between me and a guy on one side of me. However, we had an open post on the squad so we figured out how to rearrange so that we could all shoot and not break the 2-yard rule. Gene Z. (target setter) was driving by so we stopped him and he said that sounded fine and he would go let the offic know.

    He came back out after we finished one post and said the office didn't want us to do it that was and I would need to resquad, so he gave me a ride back to the office to do so, the rest of the squad continued.

    The twist is that I was shooting on the wrong squad! I thought I was on squad 8 but was on squad 12. Right pew, wrong song. Just so happened that "my" post was empty on squad 8, so I fit right in. Gene took me back out to the line and I shot with the correct squad.

    So the question is - what happened to the 5 targets I shot, and the targets of the guys on my first squad that were out of turn?

    Scott
     
  14. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    They were all disqualified for shooting out of turn, Scott, and are just waiting until you show up again at the SW Grand . . .

    Neil
     
  15. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    LOL.

    The five I shot counted, and nobody else suffered any penalty . . . which is exactly what any reasonable person would have expected.

    If you see 3 guys that look really tired standing on bank 2 let them know I'll be there Sunday as soon as I get classified.

    Scott
     
  16. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Neil, I never said there was anything wrong in making the decision that was made, if I was scoring I wouldn't have even bothered calling the referee to make that decision since in the end all shooters would have shot 5 targets from each station.

    BTW, please note what I said above and take special note when I said "Granted the management did make the proper logical call"

    We both must agree though that if the rules were followed as they are written and not as interpretative guidelines that all the shooters scores would have been hurt.
     
  17. Ertz

    Ertz Member

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    OK, but what if they were shooting on a cruise ship and crossed the international date line. It would be yesterday, so could they all start over?
     
  18. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    What if the cruise ship went over the equator as well as the international date line at the same time?
     
  19. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Mr Newbius stated "if I was scoring I wouldn't have even bothered calling the referee to make that decision since in the end all shooters would have shot 5 targets from each station." There is only one major problem with your handling of the situation their would have been no score on post 1 on the sheet. Oh please don't try and tell us you would have thought to move the score from 5 to 1 on the sheet because from the way you state your case I don't feel you were smart enough to realize that it should be done.

    Booger Blue as lumper it is a known fact but as Mr. Newbius he thinks he has to prove it all over again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Bob Lawless
     
  20. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Bob ... is there some reason why your being a male appendage and trying to bust my gonads or is it simply that you feel the need because you just dont want to agree but instead fight?
     
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