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Rule Change

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by phirel, Jan 21, 2009.

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  1. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Our current rules state that if a whole target emerges along with debris (broken chips) from another targets, the target is ruled as a no target and must be shot over.

    I enforced this rule a few times and was considered a bit off center for doing so. Now, the rule is simply not enforced.

    I have suggested that the rule be changed to give the shooter an option of not shooting a whole target that comes out with debris but if he does shoot, the result of the shot must be scored. I have discussed this with our Executive Director, a couple of members of the Executive Committee and one member of the Central Handicap Committee. All have agreed that this change would be beneficial.

    What are your opinions on this possible change?

    Pat Ireland
     
  2. lc

    lc TS Member

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    How can you be sure it is debris?
     
  3. Trap4

    Trap4 Member

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    Should be left the way it is--Shoot over.

    Trap-4
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The rule is just fine, leave it alone. Put somebody in the chair that will enforce it. HMB
     
  5. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    "No Target"...shoot it over.

    This should not be a discretionary point made by the shooter nor the scorer.

    If any "gray matter" is printed, then the rules will be bent.

    Keep it simple.

    Curt
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    The most common debris is a small chip that comes out of the right side of the house and does not rise above the house. Only the shooter on post 5 can see this type of debris.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. Bluzman98

    Bluzman98 Member

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    Leave the rule as is.....no target, shoot again

    JMHO

    Jim C
     
  8. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    I agree that the change you suggest would be beneficial, Pat. The way the rule is currently written it can be abused.......I have seen it personally.

    John C. Saubak
     
  9. K80Dude

    K80Dude Member

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    I agree with the change. The shooter may not see the broken target pieces depending on which post he is on as well as where he places his eyes when he calls for a target. In my opinion if the target he shot at is intact then it should be a good bird to score whether he hits it or not.

    Dave

    PS So excited to see a thread about trap shooting!
     
  10. dhwbailey

    dhwbailey Member

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    A whole target is a whole target regardless of what else comes out. Just look at the target and shoot it.

    Some people are far too fussy about distractions.
     
  11. Jerry944t

    Jerry944t Well-Known Member

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    The less thinking I do the better chance I have of hitting a target. If a whole target comes out along with a small chip and I have to think about it I will probably miss.

    I think the rule should state that shooting at a target that has a chip associated with it and the target is hit there is no do over.

    On the other hand if the SCORER sees a chip and the target is missed then the shooter gets a mulligan. This sort of puts the onus on the scorer as it should be.
     
  12. Delbert

    Delbert TS Member

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    In this case, if the shooter shoots at the target and misses, it should be ruled a no target. If he hits it, it's dead. Simple, and no confusion and/or debate is possible.
     
  13. butch's90t

    butch's90t Member

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    Leave it as it is, shoot over. It takes good eyes, which I don't have, to differentiate between a small chip off a target or debris from a different target. HarryC
     
  14. RogerNRA

    RogerNRA TS Member

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    I think you will open a bigger can of worms. As stated above, how can you tell quickly if it is only debris or a broken bird. I think all this does is give gound for another argument. Bad idea, but just my opinion.............Roger
     
  15. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    "Shoot over, no way to tell if it's debris or not."

    Absolutely right, Barry.

    Leave the rule as it is.
     
  16. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Leave it. The chip came from somewhere. Hard to say if it wasn't from the "whole" targetr.
     
  17. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Without reviewing all the remarks, my take is that there is simply a new question caused by the change - did that piece come from previous debris or was it really part of the bird called for? My MO on the line is if the bird looks whole, flies as if whole, and is clearly hit with shot, why bring up any question (rule ignored)? I've been in the same situation as Pat, leading off, feeling some responsibility to know the rules, and calling "no bird" when a seemingly whole bird is shot at and killed much to the consternation of squad mates.....Bob Dodd
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    This rule was a mistake from the start, and will no be "fixed" by the sort of half-measures you suggest, Pat.

    Erase the whole thing, it's no good. I tried to talk the EC member who introduced this out of it and it's never worked right from the first debris at the first shoot. Don't try to save it, it's DOA. Think about it people - what bad would happen if it disappeared totally? If a bird is broken, it's no bird. What could be more clear?

    Neil
     
  19. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    I think that the rule should stand. It is there to cover the situation were a piece(s) from another target is thrown with a target that is not broken. It can be from a previously broken target or the target above the target being thrown.
     
  20. ExFedex

    ExFedex Active Member

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    I agree with Pat and Bob Dodd. The scorer cannot see what the shooter on post 5 can. If it flys perfectly and I am the guy on post 5 then I will not call it a broken bird just for debris. Good post.
     
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