1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Rolls Royce Merlins

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Maurice, Jun 11, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Maurice

    Maurice Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    This is a wonderfull flying video of the two best fighters of World War 11.

    www.ferociousfrankie.com/video1.html Maurice ( The Brit. )
     
  2. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    6,100
    Location:
    Iowa
    A little bit easier for you Maurice.
     
  3. neofight

    neofight TS Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    465
    I saw this a couple weeks ago. The sound alone is awe-inspiring.
     
  4. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    4,965
    Can you picture yourself on the ground and having either one of those planes coming in for an attack? Bricks would be hitting the ground.
     
  5. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,064
    The P-51's engines were built in the USA by Packard Motor Car Company. Packard also built V-12 engines for PT boats. Packard probably built the best engines in the American car industry then. Never never successfully returned to building automobiles after WWII.
     
  6. Royce10

    Royce10 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    113
    At the Reno Air Races you get to hear a lot of these old beasts run. They are highly modified, shake the ground, and give you goose bumps. They say they cannot use more than half throttle on take-off, the plane will wrap itself around the prop! That is some horsepower.
     
  7. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,064
    P-51 was never a good ground attack plane. Their cooling system was exposed and very vulnerable to ground-fire. Even a single bullet in the cooling system is fatal.

    After jets took over the USAF air-to-air role the Mustangs were given the fighter-bomber duties. The air cooled radial engines on the P-47 made it a much better fighter-bomber. Air Force pilots that flew ground attack in both WWII and Korea wish they had their air-cooled, radial engine Thunderbolts in Korea. Marines liked their Corsairs in Korea. Corsairs and Thunderbolts essentially used the same air-cooled engine.
     
  8. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    8,742
    The first P-51's were built with the Packard engines. They then came out with the P-51B's, which had the Rolls Royce Merlin engines. They were also installed in the plane that is flying with the P-51 in this video, the British Spitfire. To me there has never been a better sounding engine created. To here a P-51 doing a low altitude fly-by in person there is nothing that compares to the rumble of that engine, and that sight.
     
  9. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,064
    Actually the first P-51s were built with Allison (GM) engines. They were dogs at altitude.
     
  10. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    8,742
    mrskeet,

    You are correct, about the Allison motors. The Packard Motor Company was licensed through Rolls Royce to manufacture the Merlin engine for the later P-51B's. I was trying to go by memory. The P-51D's were the better looking aircraft.
     
  11. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,254
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    Packerd built Merlin copies were also used in British Lancaster bombers. The Brits simply could not make enough Merlins. And even more pressure was put on British industry when the tank engine version of the Merlin, the Meteor, was installed in the Cromwell tank. About 80% of Merlin parts were used in the Meteor. It was basically an unsupercharged version with more simple carbs.

    Yes, the Allison P-51s were dogs at altitude, but they were slightly superior at low altitude. Add a supercharger and the Allison was very close to the Merlin in performance. Look at the P-38 Lightning, and the prototype P-39 Airacobra, both of which had supercharged Allisons. The Airacobra was too expensive, so the USAF, being penny wise and dollar foolish, ordered them without the supercharger.

    The Allison P-51 was discontinued, but the Allison ground attack version of the P-51, the A-36 Apache, soldiered on, mainly in Italy.

    BTW, Vegas made a prototype supercharged Allison version of the B-17E, which was the XB-38. Speed was boosted to 327 mph and payload was increased. But Allison simply could not make enough engines as it was for the P-38, P-39, P-40 and the early P-51.
     
  12. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,064
    I've wondered why they didn't put the supercharged Allison P-38 engines in the Mustangs. I've recently learned it was all about production. Allison was at capacity producing engines for the P-38 and didn't want to sub-contract business to Packard (another car company). So USAF decided to stay with the original British idea of the Merlin in the P-51, with USA production sub-contracted to Packard.

    The article where I read this had a picture of some US bombers, B-17 or B-24, prototypes with Allison engines, but production issues ruled them out.

    P-39s served with my Dad in WWII on anti-sub patrol. They didn't need high altitude performance for that, and the cannon firing through the propeller hub could penetrate the pressure hull of any U-boat they found on the surface. When more B-25s became available the P-39s were sent on to the Soviets to use as tank-busters.

    Dad said they did some work on adding superchargers on the P-39 but had trouble fitting them in and maintaining the weight-forward balance needed for the P-39s tricycle landing gear. To get the supercharger to fit in front of the pilot meant removing the through-the-hub cannon, which was the best feature of the P-39. He saw some prototypes of a next generation P-39 with a supercharger in back and tailwheel.
     
  13. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,645
    However you want to slice it the Rolls Merlin engine was superior without supercharging, comparing the p51 to the p38 is silly since it had twin turbocharged engines.
     
  14. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,064
    I just googled up P-39 tail-draggers. Only one was made for the Navy. But it doesn't surprise me he saw it at Langley Field. They did a lot of R&D there and he saw Navy planes there using those facilities. He saw the Navy's F8Fs there. He said those F8Fs were clearly out-flying the early USAAF jets they had there.
     
  15. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,854
    Location:
    Northeastern MD @ the top o the Bay
    My buddy Gary Stauffer ran a twin Allison powered pulling tractor and I worked with him doing machine and headwork when assembling motors from surplus...I can only imagine how awesome the Merlins were as they were definantly a notch up in every aspect
     
  16. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,423
    Seeing these two beautiful planes together flying side by side was a treat, but It got me thinking which plane was the best??? I know the spitfire was around awhile before the P-5lD. I also think that the spitfire just looks more like a fighter plane should look, but was it better than the P5lD??? Break-em all. Jeff
     
  17. ExFedex

    ExFedex Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    903
    Not Merlins but so beautiful sounding. Last week had a spotless DC-6 come over the house low enough to see she was not a fire bomber. 4 Pratt and Whitney R-2800,s at climb power,all props in sync. Next afternoon a B-25 in olive drab and an A-26 in blue paint flying tight formation went over even lower. With high octane fuel no longer available and having to operate at de-rated power settings they still look and sound so good. My guess is they are from Paul Allen's Air Museum at Paine Field in Everett, WA.
     
  18. VietVet

    VietVet TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    37
    ExFedex, the B-25 was a D model from Heritage Flight Foundation off Muikilteo Blvd, and the "blue A-26" was actually an F7F Tigercat--one of six world wide that flies! Come investigate the outstanding aircraft and be amazed at the size of the F7F, a twin engined (PW R2800's) fighter. The B-25 has Wright Cyclones--both are awesome! HFF also has a P-51B and a Mk IXe Spit that flies regularly. Splendid aircraft in every respect!
     
  19. 3DHC

    3DHC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    92
    The Cats and TBolt live at the Palm Springs Air Museum. The Mustang was visiting... Nov 2010.


    [​IMG]
     
  20. Maurice

    Maurice Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Pull & Mark, the P51 Mustang was a much better bomber escort, the Spitfire was a much better interceptor. The Spit. did not have the fuel capacity and consequently the range to escort bombers on the deep into Germany raids. The Spit was more agile and manoeuvrable and a little faster than the P51.
    Maurice ( The Brit. )
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.