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Rio Primers?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by tuscarora 99, Dec 24, 2009.

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  1. tuscarora 99

    tuscarora 99 TS Member

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    I was just wondering what everyone thought of the rio primers. I have been shooting cheddites and like them a lot but I can get cases of rios for a pretty good price. Thanks in advance for the help.

    Sincerely, Osker Reynolds
     
  2. tuscarora 99

    tuscarora 99 TS Member

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  3. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Oversized European primer that is as hot as a Federal 209A. They don't have any issues in cold weather. I never had any misfires in the 2500 that I tried (shooting buddy and I split a sleeve).

    I haven't reloaded any for about a year because I got a sweet deal on 10,000 Wnchester 209's

    ss
     
  4. DocJim

    DocJim Member

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    I've been reloading them for several years. Never a misfire and they have no problem with cold temperatures. They do enlarge the primer pocket slightly so you won't be able to go back to Winchesters, Remingtons etc. You must dedicate those hulls to the Rio primers.
    AJ
     
  5. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    I occasionally punch a hole in one but they're OK otherwise. They work better with slower powders in straight-walled hulls; they over-pressure quickly in Remington and Winchester tapered hulls with less capacity especially if the crimps are too deep or the wad pressure higher than it needs to be. They are very touchy with 1 1/8 loads and powders like Clays, Claydot, Red Dot etc. Rio uses a slow single base powder over them in hulls with lots of capacity.

    There is limited data here: http://www.rioammo.com/images/ReloadingData209RioPrimers.pdf and two loads in Alliant's on-line data. They tend to be inconsistent which is why there is virtually no powder company data for them.

    Powder company tests show them to be generally hotter than Federals. They are not a primer to be swapping casually for others without testing.

    MK
     
  6. deuce

    deuce Member

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    After hearing the conventional wisdom about Rio primers being hot and not wanting to run into excessive pressures, I called Alliant Powder and asked if they had any test data. They told me that they had pressure tested Rio primers in STS hulls with Red Dot and Promo under 1 1/8 shot charges and found them to average very slightly LESS pressure than STS or AA primers.

    Their recommendation was that Rio primers could interchange with STS and AA primers.

    Not trying to start a fight, just reporting what I was told.

    Merry Christmas.

    JimBo
     
  7. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Oskar

    Where are you getting Rios? I have had 50K on back order for months.
     
  8. tuscarora 99

    tuscarora 99 TS Member

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    Coach, I'm getting them from CAC Associates in ebensburg, pa. 105 a sleeve.
     
  9. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    deuce,

    That's what I was under the impression when I first reloaded a few. I quickly found out that isn't the case when using Hodgdon powders.

    It might be okay to substitute them with W209's when using Alliant's powders though.

    No fight here, just relaying my experience.

    ss
     
  10. Ontario Chris

    Ontario Chris Member

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    Alliant also informed me that Rio primers are somewhat comparable to STS primers. They also said to be aware that in cold weather I might run into some inconsistency.

    I avoid bloopers and incomplete burns (very cold here in Western NY) by keeping my shells warm.

    Chris
     
  11. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info about the Rios. Those guys have great prices on some stuff.

    Load the ammo up to 9000-10000 PSI and there will be no cold weather performance issues.

    LOVE the RIO primers. I have 55 gallon barrels of sorted Rio/Diana?Kemen hulls.

    You're darned right I'm gonna load 'em. LOL

    Have a great Christmas.
     
  12. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Since somebody brought up powder companies and recommendations, this email was posted in the Shotgun World forum a couple months ago:

    <I>"From: "Quesenberry, Dick" <Dick.Quesenberry@ATK.COM><br>
    To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxx<br>
    Cc: "Amonette, Ben" <Ben.Amonette@ATK.COM><br>
    Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 1:46 PM

    I am Dick Quesenberry, Product Manager for Alliant Canister Powder. Ben
    and I have discussed your e-mails and problems with Rio primers and our
    product. I apologize for the difficulty that you have encountered and
    appreciate you using our product.

    We just completed work for the new revision of our Reloaders Guide,
    which was very badly needed. During this effort we tested all primers in
    a standard controlled load for both straight wall and tapered shells to
    correlate their brisance. The following conclusions were drawn from that
    effort:<br>

    <blockquote>*Primer brisance will vary from Lot to Lot within the same brand.
    Most vary within SAAMI safety limits but Rio was found to be extremely
    variable.<br>

    *We do not publish reloading recipes using Rio primers for the
    above reason.</blockquote>

    I have also talked to Kevin at Down Range (who happens to be a great
    guy) and he agrees with our findings.

    If I was forced into recommending load data using the Rio 209, I would
    have to recommend loading like the Federal 209A and that may still give
    slightly higher velocities and pressures.

    I understand the need to save money on components but we must not
    sacrifice safety.

    If I can be of further help please e-mail me or call at XXX-XXX-XXXX and
    push XXXX at the recording."</I>

    MK
     
  13. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I load RIO's exclusively, never a problem with them, I have used 50,000 of them
    interchangebly with Winchester primers, on fast and slow burning powders.

    I also like chedites, but getting Rios cheaper.

    The only primers I had problems with were Fiochi's not going off, mis-fires and it is not the gun and firing pin, all other primers work in them.

    Traded 4500 of them for Rio's and been using them ever since.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  14. fishguts

    fishguts Member

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    Straight wall case: FED,RIO,KEMEN,etc.

    RIO Primer

    20.0grs. GREEN DOT

    12S3 Wad

    1 1/8th.oz.

    Nice handicap load

    Wayne
     
  15. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    One of my readers is the person who communicated with Alliant regarding Rio primers and received the reply that MK posted above. I find it odd that Alliant would offer contrasting advice to different people. But given the possibility that Rio primers could be risky to use in hotter loads and the way they ruin primer pockets for future use with "normal" primers, I'd suggest doing the math to determine just how little you might be saving by using them.

    I know, I know - some of you will rip me for suggesting such a thing, what with the economy and all. If so, you will remind me of a guy who used wads for straight-walled hulls in tapered ones because he could get the same velocity with a grain less powder that way. Out of curiosity, I did the math and using what I paid for PB, one of the more costly powders, and loading 10,000 shells a year, I could save less than ten bucks a year by using the wrong wad.

    Wow!

    Ed
     
  16. tuscarora 99

    tuscarora 99 TS Member

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  17. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Average Ed

    quote
    ......................................
    I find it odd that Alliant would offer contrasting advice to different people.
    ......................................
    unquote

    quote
    ......................................
    We just completed work for the new revision of our Reloaders Guide, which was very badly needed. During this effort we tested all primers in a standard controlled load for both straight wall and tapered shells to correlate their brisance. The following conclusions were drawn from that effort:

    *Primer brisance will vary from Lot to Lot within the same brand. Most vary within SAAMI safety limits but Rio was found to be extremely variable.

    *We do not publish reloading recipes using Rio primers for the above reason.
    ..........................................
    unquote

    Read the whole statement by Al;liant!
     
  18. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Ahab,

    Maybe it's me but your post in response to Average Ed makes no sense at all.

    =============================

    Since that email was sent by Alliant stating that they did not have any published data for Rio primers, they have included 3 formulas for Rios in their reloading data:

    one formula for Federal GM hulls hulls:

    <center>[​IMG]</center>

    and two formulas for AA hulls:

    <center>[​IMG]</center>


    MK
     
  19. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    tuscarora 99

    I would tell you to buy them if you could get a deal. Just be VERY conservative when you select a load using them. Treat them as hotter than the hottest primer listed, and you'd probably in the ball park. Select loads that develop low enough pressures to give you enough headroom for error. They seem to work the best in the larger capacity straight walled hulls, like the Federals and UEE offerings. They will enlarge the primer pockets in hulls that use the "standard" 209 primers.

    Anyone that says they are the "same" as any other primer is a fool. There is no direct substitute. If you feel the need, you can select a load and have some shells tested for pressure and velocity. That would give you a better idea of what you are getting.
     
  20. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I'm in the camp that says load them using Federal 209a data and keep it conservative...
     
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