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Rio 209 Shotshell Primers

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by skeeljc, Apr 14, 2009.

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  1. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Are Rio 209 shotshell primers o.k? How do they compare to Winchester 209's and Cheddite 209's?

    Jim Skeel
     
  2. Shoot-at-em

    Shoot-at-em TS Member

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    I have trouble loading them in any Remington hull. So I use Federal or Win. primers in them and use Rios in Winchester hulls. For some reason thing work better that way. They are about #40.00 per 5000 cheaper than Federan or Win.

    Frank
     
  3. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    I have been using Rio primers for several years. I stocked up when they were cheap.

    I had just as soon use them as any brand out there. They always go bang in cold weather. They will work in a gun with tired mainsprings and firing pins. I have not had the first failure-to-fire with them.

    The fact that they are oversized is a good thing because they work in any hull. I have an almost inexhaustible supply of "Eurotrash" hulls, and the Rio fits them well. I prefer the Riefenhauser hull. I load them once, and toss them. With this method, I always put good components in a good hull. :^)

    I load using Fed 209A data, and check with a chrono to match Fed 209A speed. Sometimes I have to go up a bushing, sometimes down a bushing, sometimes the speed is the same.
     
  4. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    There is very limited data available for them (Rio Primers) AND some of the data shows they have a tendency to develop rather high pressures when compared to other primers in similar loads. Whatever you do, don't push the envelope in pressure or velocity. Just because the velocity matches a given load with another primer, DOES NOT MEAN that the PRESSURE is the same. You can have significantly lower velocities and drastically higher pressures. When in doubt, send some out for pressure/velocity testing. It might cost you the savings on the first three thousand or so, but you'd have a better idea of what you are loading and some peace of mind.

    If you MUST make a substitution, be sure to do it with a load that starts low in pressure so you have some headroom in case the variables stack up and increase pressures a fair amount. One load I saw listed for the Rio Primer in the PDF supplied by Rio was an eye opener. It was OVER the maximum SAAMI specs with a moderate load of Clays. That same load with a Winchester primer would have been around or under 10,000 PSI or so.

    When dealing with things that go "bang", it's a good idea to respect the potential for damage and injury that careless selection of components or procedure can allow.

    When/If I use the Rio primer, I use the data for the highest pressure producing primer and reduce it a bit in powder weight. I don't start with ANY load that lists over 10,000 PSI and rather stay well under. If that means using a slower powder, then that will be the option I take. I'd rather use a bit more Unique than less Red Dot and have a lower pressure load at reasonable velocities.

    The Rio primer appears to be decent in colder weather, since they were basically designed to be used with the "hard to ignite" single base powders loaded in the Rio/UEE shells. That powder is the reason some of them go Poof, rather than Bang in cold weather. The Rio primer is well suited to the larger capacity straight walled hulls such as the Federals.

    Yes, they will enlarge a standard 209 primer pocket to the point that you cannot or should not use a 209 size primer in that hull again.
     
  5. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Quack Shot. I use slower powders as a matter of course. I load Intl' loads to HCP loads, and do not like the pressures generated with fast powders.

    I like Intl' Clays, Solo 1000, and Unique. I prefer a base pressure over 9,000 but under 10,000 PSI
     
  6. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Rio's compare wth Winchester and Cheddite, I use them exclusively never a mis-fire and very affordable, I use Winchester primer loading data. I use them in fast burning and slow burning powder, from Promo to 800-X and Longshot.

    Never a problem using them in Remington Hulls.



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  7. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Rev,

    Mash the link and look at the data from Rio yourself. Check the data for Clays and Green Dot using the Rio primers in Remington and Winchester Hulls. Compare it to the data listed on the Alliant and Hodgdon sites for the same powders and other primers. Do the homework and do the math. There was some data that was shared by someone else on this forum a year or so ago. He had tested the Rio primers using Clay Dot powder. His pressures were WAY over the top. Some of the loads listed for Winchester primers and Clays powder would need to be reduced two grains or so, to keep the pressures within safe limits.

    The Rio data listed for the Federal hull shows a pretty decent Pressure to Velocity ratio when compared to hulls with less capacity, like the Winchester and Remingtons. That would NOT be surprising, since the Rio/UEE hulls are similar in internal dimensions. The primer is quite likely designed to be used with large capacity hulls and single based powders. Somehow, by coincidence, that seems to be what Rio/UEE uses.

    I have done my own "cold weather" testing. I compare results from the same loads when "frozen" (0-10 degrees) and when at more normal temperatures (70-80 degrees). I have four different loads in the freezer right now, waiting for chronographing. I have chronographed close to 100 different loads over the years, just for cold weather performance, or lack thereof. Winchester and Federal primers seem to have the edge on velocity retention and consistency. Rio primers are very close behind in the loads I have tested. I intend to test more Rios to verify the results, also using primers from different lots. I won't list the worst performers, since they may work better with some other powders, wads, or hulls. They just did poorly for me in the loads I tried. I have also done "cold" testing of many factory loads. I prefer not to use Rio or UEE shells for several reasons. One BIG one is the cold weather testing I did a couple of years ago.

    When reducing the powder charge, you need to look at comparable loads. Unfortunately, there is very little data to go on for The Rio primers. Some loads might be OK as is. Some may require two grains or more of a reduction to be safe. They are NOT the same as Winchester or any other primer and the same data should NOT be used. To make a statement that they are the same would be quite irresponsible.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you are hell bent on swapping components, sending out at least five shells for pressure testing shouldn't break the bank. You'd know about what your loads are developing for pressure and have a little peace of mind to boot.
     
  8. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    My evaluations of Rio's data and Hodgdon's data would seem to support the contention they are much more similar to the Federal 209A primers than Win or Rem.

    JC
     
  9. goosecall

    goosecall TS Member

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    The link above is for Gold Medal hull, clayDot powder, XXL Orange wad and all current primers manufactured. I thought this was interesting, but this is one load and one powder, switch powder and the PSI may go to high for RIO primers when comparing to other primers. ClayDot is close to a single base powder. Has anyone tried Rio primers with American Select powder, as it is a single base powder? 10tenner
     
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