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Rimfire and cold weather?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by tomk2, Dec 8, 2007.

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  1. tomk2

    tomk2 Member

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    I have re-discovered 22 shooting, now that my daughters are old enough to shoot. I recently bought a used scoped 22, and took it to an outdoor range to adjust the scope. It was cold out, freezing or slightly below. After my box of 22's were out for a while, I started to have about one dud every two mags. I noticed that if I put the mag in my pocket for a few minutes before shooting, it didn't happen (at least it didn't happen the three times I did this).

    So now I am wondering, was it the cold weather, or did I buy a used rimfire rifle that has a problem? Or was it the ammo? Re-striking the duds didn't make them fire, and there is a definite dent in the rim.
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like the problem is the ammo. Try a couple different brands and see which one works best. Kids burn up a lot of ammo, you can get a 550 round Federal value pack at Wal-Mart for $9.88. HMB
     
  3. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    It could be the ammo, but it could also be your firing pin gumming up from the cold weather and not falling like it would in warmer weather. It just might need a good cleaning. You might want to check it out.

    Hauxfan!
     
  4. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I always start with a good cleaning when ever I have a problem with any gun. I have seen plenty .22 just plain worn out. If you bought this at a private sale and know the shooter then you might get a history. If you bought at a gun shop and it was traded in you gots to be careful. Beside the miss fire, hows it shoot? I have a older marlin25 .22 It really loves .22 shorts best groups with the shorts. Do not see .22 short around any more. I bought 200rnds on sale at Walmart....old inventory. All shot fine, just a few flyers. Ammo can be fussy in some guns. My ruger MarkIII hates the big box reminton ammo. shoots wolf ammo awesome? The Aguilla???? Target match ammo is very accurate in both the riffle and pistol but doesnt allways cycle the ruger?
     
  5. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    not the ammo but may be a dirty chamber or the firing pin is gummed up

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  6. VNVET

    VNVET Member

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    Since you didn't mention the brand and model of rifle or the brand of ammo, which could be the problem because of design flaws or known problems, I can only speculate. I think you have an ignition problem caused by: weak hammer spring (hammer gun), weak firing pin spring, old grease or crud around the firing pin retarding the fall of the firing pin, worn firing pin or incorrect headspace. Is the firing pin strike on the fired cases, round or oblong? Many ignition problems are easy to fix, depending on the gun. I suggest you dis-assemble the bolt and give it a good cleaning along with the firing pin, reassemble and lube with sewing machine oil. Clean the breach face and extractor grooves and post the results back here. Much help is available here.
     
  7. willing

    willing Member

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    Many times I have found that just rotating the shell will enable it to fire. It seems that sometimes the priming material is not spread evenly around the inside of the rim. It may work,

    Bill
     
  8. tomk2

    tomk2 Member

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    I got a rather low price on a Remington 597 combo (ie: scope included by OEM). One scratch on the end of the barrel, otherwise no visible wear. Bought at Gander, no history on the firearm available. The un-scoped models were first offered for sale in 1997, this one doesn't look heavily used.

    I believe the firing pin dent to have been round. I know at least one of them was round, anyway, but it is possible others were oblong (dang my memory). I tried to rotate the round and strike it in a different spot, no effect. I did not have another rifle at the time to see if the round would fire in a different gun. This ammo lot had not misfired in a 30 year old bolt action rifle, nor a new henry mini-bolt shot in warm weather.

    I will give it a cleaning. I do have 30 days to bring it back per store policy.
     
  9. tomk2

    tomk2 Member

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    A pox on those who suggested a cleaning!LOL

    The gun is easy enough to take apart, despite the lousy instructions. But two rods that serve as recoil rails require you to bend, push, futz and finess the recoil springs back on them in a narrow and cramped reciever. I took me over a half hour to do just that! I am thinking of returning it just because of the contortions needed to put it back together. arghhh.

    But I suppose the next time won't be as bad.

    How do the Ruger 22 rifles disassemble? I have seen a few of the 10-22's on sale every now and then. Any easier to maintain them?
     
  10. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Any chance the ammo was Remington Thunderbolts?
     
  11. tomk2

    tomk2 Member

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    Nope. Peters cartridge co. 22 lr.
     
  12. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The Ruger 10/22s are easy to disassemble and clean. It's easy to check the duds in another gun. Pull the heads and dump the powder and test fire the empty case. HMB
     
  13. bambambam

    bambambam Member

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    tomk2,
    the Peters cartridge is just Thunderbolt in a different box.David
     
  14. tomk2

    tomk2 Member

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    bam-

    I do have another half brick of old ammo that I will do a comparison with. But I can't help but notice that the Peters ammo did not have any misfires in two other bolt action rifles I have used them in.
     
  15. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I was given a box of Remington Thunderbolts by another shooter on a range this summer. He said that they did not shoot well in his gun, a semi-automatic Marlin. I tried them single feed in a Ruger bolt action and they were terrible with well over half failing to fire and the ones who did fire were all over the map at 100 yard target. Before and after shooting the Thunderbolts, I was shooting near 1" 5 shot groups with Wolf Match Target ammo.

    I was not impressed with the Thunderbolts.

    I suspect that there was some type of quality control issue with the priming compound in the Thunderbolts I shot.
     
  16. VNVET

    VNVET Member

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    Tomk2,
    There have been some who have suggested that the ammo is the problem and I can tell you the likelyhood that is the case is nill. You, of course can choose any of the advise posted here and act upon it as you choose. If any of the major brands of ammo would not fire in a production gun, built to SAMMI specs,(which they all are) they would not stay in business very long. Since you bought a used gun from Gander, with no indication of what the gun may have gone through before you bought it, or who may have tweeked it, I suggest you take it back for a refund. There is not a doubt in my mind that you have a problem with the gun. You can take it to a qualified gunsmith and pay to have it fixed, which will add to the money you have in the gun........your decision.

    In addition to shooting trap, I also shoot .22 rimfire benchrest and build rimfire rifles for the game. I have seen many FTF rifles but never has the ammunition been the problem. It has always been, IGNITION, which is the firing pin striking the rim, with sufficent force, at the proper location to ignite the primer compound. On the rare occasion, and I'm talking about one in ten thousand where ammo is the problem, that can be confirmed by pulling the bullet on the FTF cartridge and examining the priming compound at the base of the cartridge. If after the firing pin strike and around that area the primer compound has flaked off you might say MAYBE the ammo was the problem. If the priming compound is intact, the ammo is not the problem. Most likely the gun was dryfired and the firing pin was deformed when it hit the breach end of the barrel (NEVER dryfire a rimfire rifle). If the firing pin does not strike with sufficent force the problem is: crud around the firing pin retarding the firing pin fall: weak hammer spring, incorrect headspace not allowing the firing pin to reach the case rim with sufficent force to ignite the primer. Again, the choice is yours. Pay more money to have a gunsmith fix you rifle of take it back and get another gun that works properly. Your choice!
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Au contrare'.

    I've found that Remington Thunderbolts often fail to fire in numerous aemi-auto firearms. They function flawlessly in a bolt gun or revolver.

    Further, I've found that often restriking the Thunderbolt does no good, but if the cartridge is rotated in the bore to a fresh area of the rim, it often fires.

    Further, the firearms having a problem with Thunderbolts do not have a problem with any other brand.
     
  18. tomk2

    tomk2 Member

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    VNVET -

    Having cleaned it up, I will take it out for one more afternoon before deciding. I had 4 failure to fires in about 100 rounds, all of them coming in the last half. If it persists, I will return it. No sense in keeping an unreliable gun that is also a bit of a pain to reassemble.
     
  19. ccw1911

    ccw1911 Member

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    If you can, return it and get a Ruger 1022. Remington has had some problems with this model.
     
  20. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    NEVER dry fire a rimfire rifle. You must be kidding. Put an empty fired case in the chamber and dry fire it all you like.

    If you are handy with tools I can suggest how you can improve the ignition and accuracy of this rifle. Next time you have the gun apart, take the bolt and measure the recess in the face of the bolt where the head of the cartridge case rests. If the recess is more than .045 deep take a flat file remove a few thousanths from the face of the bolt. Stop when the recess measures .045. HMB
     
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