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right hander w/ left eye dominant

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by acss, Apr 11, 2009.

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  1. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    i know this has been discussed before- but refresh me on- 8th grade boy learning to shoot trap- has left eye dominance and shoots right handed!
    for now he is closing the left eye-- help!!! i havent asked him to try switching to left? wud a crossfire blade do any good? he is breaking 1/2 the targets and realize he is just getting his feet wet!!
     
  2. 3357

    3357 Member

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    The cross fire blade would help. I think a properly located piece of scotch tape on the left lense would help more than anything. Mr. Kiner (Phil) has a couple of good threads on here. Try doing a search.
     
  3. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    what is the differance between the "blade" and tape? other than the tape blocks all vision in a particular spot!
     
  4. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Im a Left Eye dom shooter, all my life my dad and most others always said you hold a gun like this.......I shot my first year and a half of trap right handed with eye closed, tape ect ect. I finally switched to LH shooter both eyes open. MUCH BETTER......Now only if I had started as a youngster.

    Tell me when he picks up a gun does he at any time start to mount it LH?
    Personally at this age I would have him mount the gun LH and both eyes open. "Eyes on the target, follow through". This is the only advice I was ever given by the best trap shooter I know.
     
  5. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    what made you switch? how long did you moan with discomfort of feeling odd with left stanse?
     
  6. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I shot poorly for years because I'm a right hander but left eye dominant.<br>
    <br>
    I hated tape on my glasses. Drove me crazy having a blurry area. Too distracting. And I usually don't wear glasses in the field.<br>
    <br>
    At the suggestion of someone here, I tried a Uni-Dot. My scores weren't great to begin with, and got worse for a couple of months. But then I ran my first 25 and 50 straight.<br>
    <br>
    The Uni-Dot is a sight that fits on the rib in front of the existing bead. It's a fiberoptic rod partially inside a black aluminum tube. The rod gathers light, making the fiberoptic rod seems like a bright light. The tube, though, only permits the shooting eye to see this bright "bead". The non-shooting eye is blocked from seeing it.<br>
    <br>
    The trick to using it is to not look at the bright dot. Keep your eyes on the clay, and with peripheral vision, bring the dot to the clay and swing through it. If you look directly at the dot, you'll wind up aiming, and missing.<br>
    <br>
    I have a Uni-Dot on nearly all my shotguns, including hunting shotguns.
     
  7. flamborn

    flamborn TS Member

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    My son has in the same situation. With a little practice on the mechanics of operating the gun (rem 11-87 LH) he shoots left handed. Most experienced trap shooters I talked to said let him shoot left from the start. He said he was uncomfortable with his left eye covered. He also shoots rifle better left handed.

    I would suggest letting him shoot left handed as long as he's comfortable operating the gun from the "wrong" side.
     
  8. otnot

    otnot Active Member

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    I have been a right eyed right handed shooter all my life until just recently when my left eye took over. I have tried tape, one eyed but I just can't seem to shoot as effectively as before. I have decided to begin to shoot left handed other than to go to one eyed shooting. How many out there have been able to get back to their old averages?
     
  9. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    +1 on let him shoot left-handed. There's more involved that just vision; it's how the brain processes info, too and left-eyed, shooting right, interferes.

    My son was the same way. It takes abt 2 weeks to feel comfortable.

    g'luck


    Bob
     
  10. LABS4U0

    LABS4U0 TS Member

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    I would listen to Phil Kiner's opition only. Shoot him an e-mail. He is the Dr. when it comes to eye dominant issues. This may be bad timing since the SW grand will be starting soon, but I am sure he will give you a timely answer. Darren
     
  11. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    If you can find a left-hand shooter to work with him an hour or so on stance, aim-points, etc. you'll be ahead of the game.

    Another good trick to get eye-hand built up is a round or three of benchrest skeet ... lots of see-the-bird/break-the-bird.

    The transition will go quickly.


    Bob
     
  12. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if there's a difference between a true left eye dominance problem and a lazy right master eye in some shooters? Hap
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I found it much easier to become accustom to tape on my lens than learning to shoot left handed.

    For about 50 years, one group of excellent private schools required young children to change their dominant writing hand. This requirement was placed on around 500,000 individuals when they were about 6 years old. The results of this long term effort are less than satisfactory.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. MTA Tom

    MTA Tom Active Member

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    "For most people, shotgunning is easier and more effective with both eyes open. Binocular vision facilitates the estimation of distance speed and angle, and helps one to get the full benefits of hand-to-eye coordination (if you doubt it, try catching a ball with one eye shut). There are other benefits to binocular vision such as reduced tension and fatigue. However, do not believe those who tell you simplistically that everyone should shoot with both eyes open. It is just not that simple (which condemns more than a few shooting tomes to the pyre): the critical consideration is eye dominance.

    It is a curiosity of the binocular system of human vision (at least in most adult males) that one eye tends to control pointing. If a finger were pointed at a distant object, there would be a straight line relationship from object to finger to eye. The pointing eye, whichever it may be, is called the dominant or master eye. The majority of adult men have eye dominance which matches their handedness and, once this is confirmed, are well advised to shoot with both eyes open. There are other possibilities. Some may be cross-dominant (e.g., right-handed with a left master); a few have central vision (neither eye dominating); and others may be predominantly but not fully dominant in one eye. For those shooting a standard gun who fall into one of these categories, the best advice is usually to shut or squint one eye. In women and children, absolute dominance in the eye overlooking the breech is the exception, and one-eyed shooting is often the simplest remedy too.

    Eye dominance is an intriguing phenomenon in which biological, environmental and experiential factors appear to play a role. Eye dominance in boys typically becomes more absolute with advancing years. In middle-aged men, however, it may become less absolute. It may be affected by training (disciplining oneself to sustain focus on the bird and ignore any “ghost” image), but results are unpredictable. It is (largely) unrelated to visual acuity (one can have poor vision in one eye yet it can still be more dominant as far as the control of pointing is concerned). It can vary in the same individual. It can be disturbed by fatigue, ill-health, staring at computer screens, long-distance driving and low light levels. It is not just a physical phenomenon, but a mental one as well. Having considered some of the scientific literature while researching this book, it appears that gunfitters may have a more profound understanding of eye dominance than anyone else (especially with regard to sex and age differences).

    The diagnosis of eye dominance certainly involves far more than a simple – and potentially inaccurate – observation that an individual is right or left eye dominant (any testing method that only gives “either/or” results is worthless). It is common, for example, to find a male client who has what might be called “pseudo-dominance”, i.e., when tested, one eye appears to be almost – but not quite fully – dominant. Such a condition is easily overlooked by an inexperienced or sloppy instructor (typically being misdiagnosed as full dominance). However, the effects on shooting can be profound. Typically, there will be many inexplicable misses on quartering and crossing targets where the lead does not favor the dominance.

    It is not uncommon, moreover, for shooters to be wrongly advised to switch shoulders having been told they were cross-dominant, when in fact their dominance in the opposite eye was not absolute (much better and simpler advice would have been to stick to the “strong” shoulder and squint an eye). All of which leads me to conclude that the precise diagnosis of a client’s eye dominance is one of the most vital considerations in shooting instruction. One need make no apologies for dealing with it in the most scrupulous manner….
    A right-hander with a left master eye (or a left-hander with a right master eye) has a number of options. One of the easiest, in the former case, is to shoot from the right shoulder but closing or dimming the left eye prior to firing. Rather than keeping the eye shut throughout the pickup, swing and mount, it will be better for most sporting and game shots to dim the eye as the gun comes up to the shoulder. This way one gets some of the benefits of binocular vision and has an increased field of view during the critical pickup phase. It is a definite mistake to dim the eye only at the last moment as this may be visually confusing.

    The offending eye may be covered with a patch (although instructors who inflict this on novices should try it themselves), or if the student wears spectacles, a block to vision may be placed over the appropriate lens. This need not be a full-sized patch but may be a much smaller block, refined so that it is no more than a half inch across. One may use electrician’s tape, a smudge of Vaseline, chapstick, typing correction fluid or a Magic Dot on the lens to achieve this (once the position and size are confirmed, glasses may be permanently and neatly modified by sandblasting in an optical workshop)….
    Kay Ohye, the famous trap shot, developed a “blinder” to be attached to the rib near the muzzles of over-and-unders. It has subsequently been manufactured by several firms. Another clever device consists of a U-shaped channel with a fluorescent sight at one end. This may be attached to the barrel and when in place, the brightly-coloured insert can only be seen by the eye looking along the rib. A similar effect may be achieved by using the thumb on the forend to block the vision of the eye not looking down the rib (as practiced by both Churchill and Barry Simpson)….

    A traditional remedy for those whose master eye and handedness do not correspond, is to learn to shoot from the left (or weak) shoulder with or without a suitably adapted (cast-off changed to cast-on triggers reshaped) gun. I do not usually favour this course (though it is sometimes appropriate). The advantage of binocular vision may be outweighed by the awkwardness of the manoeuvre. It is my experience that few of those who are forced to take this route develop into really first class shots (although many one-eyed shots, beating the odds, do)….

    Finally beware: not everyone who shoots as their eye dominance – as tested – might suggest. Some may be able to shoot well with both eyes open, even though initial testing without a gun indicates a dominance problem. Some will have inconsistent eye dominance (my own normally right-eyed dominance fades and can even switch when I get tired). Some will have a master eye significantly weaker than the other as far as visual acuity is concerned. Inability to focus can undermine eye dominance. (Sometimes those with contact lenses who have a slight eye dominance problem, may be advised to shoot with the left lens removed.) Some people’s eye dominance is affected by the choice of gun. Short guns and side-by-sides tend to cause more problems than the more pointable over-and-unders. Changing to longer barrels can help someone with a mild eye-dominance problem…."

    The Shotgun, a Shooting Instructor’s Handbook, Michael Yardley, copyright 2001, Safari Press
     
  15. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

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    You have described my situation perfectly. Please have the boy try to shoot left handed. I learned as a small boy with a bb gun to shoot left "couldn't see the bead on the end of the gun with the right eye" and have shot left all my life. It's the only action I do left handed. It's not a sin to do things left handed and the shooter will see the birds better with his dominate eye. Good luck and practice makes perfect. Dan
     
  16. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    If you would not mind would the ones of you that have switched to the other hand send me your information. I am always trying to add to my data bank on this issue.

    Such info could include: age, average before, average after, how long it took to get used to the switch, what was the biggest "thing" to figure out or get over or convert in your learning curve or anything else that you feel is pertinent. thanks phil

    ps- acss send me an email and I will send you my cell so we can talk.
     
  17. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    thanks to everyone- happy easter! wally riebesell
     
  18. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    ACSS, it took me about 2 cases of shells to get used to the LH stance and how I set up. I am natural LH. I even did this in golf many years ago. When I switvhed and got custom fitted LH golf clubs Ient from 100 being a good day to mid 80s low 90s.
     
  19. acss

    acss Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    thanks
     
  20. midalake

    midalake Well-Known Member

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    As a one eye shooter my life, now 47 and went into trap at the age of 30. For me being left eye dom, was difficult in the beginning. But getting good instruction from other good one eye shooters can put you in front leaps and bounds. I am at a point now where I have complete confidence that when I miss it is not because I shoot one eye. EVERYONE is different. I am VERY uncoordinated in my left hand and side. I most likely never would be able to shoot left handed. However the youngster may be able to make the switch right now. He may also be not fully developed and may switch to right eye in a few years? One fact remains as well I have installed many dots on glasses of shooters who shoot with one eye closed, or two eyes open. In almost EVERY case 1/2 the shooters remain at the same level they were shooting at before and about 1/2 the shooters increase their average. So case in point if "one eye" is so bad why these shooters increase their average. As I look back on my short career, I fully believe that I would never have the averages I do unless I went with a dot on my glasses. I also am amazed how many of the "top dogs" have a very UN orthodox style that surly would not be taught to a beginner. In the long run one needs to have a feel for what will work for you, and do the patience and practice to make it happen.

    GS
     
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