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rifle question

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by AveragEd, Sep 23, 2009.

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  1. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I had what I believe to be a wierd thing happen last weekend and wanted to see if it was as unusual as I thought it to be.

    I'm a big Remington Model 700 fan and buy a lot of their special-run and limited-production pieces. In 2007, they offered their Model 700LSS, a stainless steel BDL in a grey laminated stock, chambered in .257 Weatherby Magnum to their "premium" distributors. I bought one new-in-the-box a few months ago and took it out to the range for the first time the other day to get the scope close to the center of the paper, make some empty cases for test handloads and see what bedding method the rifle preferred.

    The bolt wouldn't close on the third factory load. Assuming the shell was the problem, I tried another and the bolt closed but it wouldn't on the next one. I tried pushing the bolt home a little more forcefully and the handle went down normally but the fired case then remained in the chamber. I take cleaning equipment along when seasoning a new barrel, so getting it out was as easy as a push with the cleaning rod. I found the small extractor lip in the boltface had broken off.

    I tried all the remaining shells in that box and the bolt closed on every one, even the couple that gave me trouble earlier, so the chamber and the ammo are okay. Of course, I had to tilt the muzzle upward to let them slide out of the chamber.

    I'm dropping the rifle off for warranty repairs at a Remington warranty station near Reading, PA, this evening and when I called, the lady with whom I spoke did not seem to be totally unfamiliar with the condition. Have any of you experienced this?

    Ed
     
  2. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    A Rem 700 is not a full length case resizer.

    Sounds like it was an ammo problem.
     
  3. Old Texas Marine

    Old Texas Marine Member

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    Ed,

    The Remington extractor has always been a weakness in the 700. Many (not most) have the bolt modified to the Sako style extractor. Even so, out-of-the box with factory ammo, there is more than this issue involved. You are doing the right thing by returning it to Rem. Did they ask for sample rounds? I assume the ammo was Weatherby brand. This ammo is (was) loaded by Norma and has a great reputation, but anything is possible.

    HBT
     
  4. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it was Weatherby factory ammo loaded by Norma, so case resizing would not have been an issue. And now that the extractor lip is missing, it all chambers beautifully so I doubt it was the cause of the problem (although that was my thought when the bolt wouldn't close the first time).

    I own perhaps 20 Model 700s and have shot many of them a lot using nothing but neck-sized handloads without ever experiencing this, so it kind of took me by surprise.

    The repair center didn't ask for the ammo but I have it with me in case they want to try it in the rifle to eliminate it and the chamber from consideration. I also tried several of the 40 pieces of new empty brass I have for the rifle and it all chambered easily.

    One of the fired cases has a very slightly buggered-up rim and I assume that's the one on which the extractor broke. I can't imagine a piece of soft brass that was misshaped breaking a piece of heat-treated steel, so I'm guessing the broken lip floating around is what marked the rim.

    Ed
     
  5. Old Texas Marine

    Old Texas Marine Member

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    Ed,

    Based on the info in your last post, I am sure it was the extractor and Rem will replace it and you will be fine. If they want to spend three months doing so, I would just have my local gunsmith do it while you wait. It is a simple procedure and most rifle smiths have Rem extractors in stock (for obvious reasons).

    Have fun with the 257 Wxby. A friend has a custom 257 and it is a laser weapon on coyotes.

    HBT
     
  6. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    That little 'finger nail' extractor is the main design flaw of an otherwise great rifle. I'm a M700 fan as well. My solution is to install a Sako style extractor which requires some milling to the bolt and you no longer have the 'three rings of steel' around the rim of the shell. But it works 100% of the time and is nearly as positive as a mauser style claw extractor.
     
  7. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I asked the lady I spoke with if I could make an appointment for the repair in case it was something simple to do but she said I had to drop it off. Having been in the repair industry, I can appreciate that you often do not know what a repair will involve until you see it. Fortunately, it's only about a 75-minute drive each way.

    I primarily bought the rifle because it's a little bit of an oddball. I really don't have a lot of use for the cartridge as I have several .25-06s and they are at worst 150fps behind the Weatherby. But I'm hoping the Weatherby's rifling twist will stabilize 115-grain Bergers better than the .25-06s, which loose accuracy over 100 grains.

    Ed
     
  8. Mike Michalski

    Mike Michalski Member

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    AveragEd, Enjoy your writing in Shotgun Sports and previously Trap and Field. You seem to have a good knowledge of firearms other than shotguns. Have you ever considered writing for other publications?
     
  9. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Mike. Over the years, I have sent an inquiry to one motorcycle, one rifle and a handloading magazine but never heard back. I suspect they may be hesitant to do what might be construed as "stealing" a writer from another publication. But I would love to do that - I will be able to do the job I now have for many years to come but if something should happen that I cannot, writing is something I should always be able to physically handle.

    Thanks again for the kind words.

    Ed
     
  10. Steve NJ

    Steve NJ Member

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    Ed, Let us know haw you make out with the repair.

    Thanks, Steve
     
  11. kenf

    kenf Active Member

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    Ed,

    My brother had the same problem with a new 338 RUM in a Sendero model. The rifle was sent to RW Hart for an accurize job, and when it came back it would not extract. Somewhere the extractor clip got broken off, and wasn't checked in the shop before it left. The Sako extractor solved the problem as previously mentioned.

    As an aside, Ed is one of the few auto service guys that I have ever met that isn't (or hasn't) been completely soured by dealing with the public. I worked as a detailer at a Ford/Chrysler dealer and the three service managers there were all &%&#(*@(a.

    Ken
     
  12. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    One of the drawbacks of the Sako extractor conversions on a 700 bolt is if you get a ruptured case in the web or extractor groove area you risk getting hit by the extractor or spring, as it will fly out the raceway in the receiver. I have a Rem 5R milspec with 2800+ rounds through it and it still extracts ok.
     
  13. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I just checked the gun inventory I keep in this laptop I take to work with me and the oldest production date for a Model 700 I purchased new is February of 1976. That particular rifle is a .22-250 Varmint Special that has fired thousands of rounds of neck-sized handloaded ammo without a burp and still prints 3/8" five-shot 100-yard groups. It has a lot of older, well-used cousins in my safe, which is why I was so surprised at this failure. I wasn't aware it was a fairly common thing.

    Ed
     
  14. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    Who does the Sako extractor? I have a 300 RUM that I want fixed. AJ
     
  15. jack1122

    jack1122 TS Member

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    Ed,

    I own two Rem 700 LSS's .300 win and a .338 RUM. I've shot hundreds of rounds through both of them and never had a problem with either one of them. I have owned and still own several other 700 BDL's and haven't had any problems with any of the extractors.


    Just my $.02.


    Jack
     
  16. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Could the piece that broke off have gotten in the way of the bolt lugs, causing it not to close? I had a similar problem with one of the new style (after 64) Winchesters and it jammed the bolt from closing. Cleaned the chip out and everything was fine. It still extracted, but there was a chip missing from the extractor. 5 minutes and a perforated thumb later, a new extractor and spring was in the bolt. I actually had one in my spare parts bin.
     
  17. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how common this problem is Ed but I have five M700 rifles and the extractors failed on two of them. Those were both early 70's vintage guns with the riveted extractors. I tried to fix one of the bolts myself and even got the jig from Brownells but the repair job didn't hold up so I went with the Sako extractor modification. Very simple design, too bad they don't come from the factory like this.

    Murphy's law usually applies on rifle break downs, something to consider before taking that M700 to Alaska where you might need to empty the magazine real quick on some large furry thing with teeth. Okay that's probably not going to happen but I was nearly over run by ground squirrels one afternoon when the extractor on my .22-250 broke, fortunately I had my trusty M41 S&W ....
     
  18. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    You guessed it John, Humboldt Co. NV.

    I'll have to look into the Phalanx tactic, one question on that .... does it allow for much barrel cooling? I have a long and discraceful history of ruining .22-250 barrels because I just keep stuffing ammo into the varminters and pulling the trigger. A few of the scenes in Blackhawk Down reminded me of those 'en masse' squirrel attacks. Even loaded .22-250 ammo on a Dillon 550 just to keep up with the bi-weekly outings.

    These days, I just use .17 HMRs ... not as spectacular but still way fun.
     
  19. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    You know what John, I have had several ranchers offer to pay for my ammo for shooting their squirrels as well. I always politely decline but after a few outings I'll bring up the possibility of quail hunting on their place in the fall. And just like that I'm in. Doesn't get much better than that.

    I'll second the notion about Leupold scopes and good triggers. Their 12x AO varmint/target scope is one of my favorites.
     
  20. handlepuller

    handlepuller Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to make an offer to any of you prairie dog shooters.

    I've never gone but I've always wanted to.

    You ever invite me to meet you somewhere to shoot prairie dogs and I'll buy dinner every night we're there.

    You might have to show me the ropes. I just bought a DPMS with a 24 inch bull barrel and I'd love to burn up some ammo sometime!
     
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