1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Removing The Current E.C.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Hauser, Jul 27, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    860
    In light of issues raised in the letter and supporting documents sent to E.C. by Bob Glatz what options/procedures are available to the membership to remove the current E.C.??


    Jerry Hauser
     
  2. white rattler

    white rattler Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    994
    Jerry, tell us more about the letter. Trevor Dawe.
     
  3. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    3,396
  4. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,781
    Anybody who wants the whole set of docs (three .pdf, with a conveyance ltr to the delegates), PM me your e-mail address.

    Bob
     
  5. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    860
    First: In the short term I don't see the downside to not having an E.C.
    We have an executive director, we have a controller, and we have the current office staff in place so there shouldn't be any interruptions to the day to day running of the organization.


    Second: Too much is made of the amount of money it cost members of the EC to do their job. Most spend more getting elected than they do once they are elected.


    According to the letter Neil Winston was reimbursed $7500 for travel expenses to attend meetings at Trap shoots he probably would have attended anyway. More importantly if it were cost prohibitive for him to attend these meetings then he could have participated via teleconference.


    Third: The ATA is designated a charitable organization so if you cant afford the time and expense to be a member of the E.C., then don't run for election in the first place.


    The letter was not written some T.S.com malcontent so if the E.C. has different narrative regarding the money lost by the organization over the past couple of years, the travel reimbursements, and compliance with the 501C-3 requirements then they need to explain their position to the entire membership and do it very quickly.


    The E.C. has the opportunity and the means to address the issues with a 'letter to the membership” and post it on the ATA web-site.


    Absent a prompt, detailed explanation to the membership of the E.Cs position, the membership should do everything in their power to remove the current E.C.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  6. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,680
    I have to state that given the current events, the EC (every swinging richard) should resign for the good of the ATA. This should be done at the BOD Meeting at the Grand. Then the delegates can appoint Rively to be the captain of the ship while the delegates elect a Oversight Commitee of 3 to 5 delegates to oversee and coordinate the ATA's business with Rively.

    As I stated before, "A violation of the public trust is a unforgiveable offense" and should be dealt with swiftly.

    Curt
     
  7. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,781
    When faced with a steamrolling change, one becomes: part of the change ... or, part of the road.

    Bob
     
  8. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,390
    Mob mentality.

    You guys don't have enough info yet to hang everybody. Nobody has said those funds were misappropriated from the ATA, at least with that intent. Paying VALID travel expenses for someone that works or attends meetings at an event is not something that is outrageous in the nonprofit world. Do you really think members of NCAA Committees aren't required to attend their respective sport's Championship Tournament?

    For a one-day meeting, you can't pay lodging for the whole week etc., but there are valid expenses to be expected. I'm sure some know who has been gaming the system and who hasn't, I certainly don't.

    I have no reason to stick up for Neil, but before you hang him, realize that nowhere in that report does it say he was reimbursed $7,500 for travel expenses to trap shoots. Maybe he was, but those two schedules are not an original and a corrected version of the same thing, at least according to their titles; they are two different scedules entirely, one possibly much more encompassing than the other. What was the $1,034 expense of the Grand everyone received?
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    I am concerned about the apparently correct facts revealed in the documents. I would, however, not make a judgment without visiting with my friends on the EC. I hope to do that rather soon. There is a possibility that different accountants can accurately present the same numbers in different ways.

    A discussion of removing the EC or any member of the EC is very premature at this time.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,685
    Location:
    Redding, California
    Jerry and Curt..... Excellent post by you both, and right on the money!! Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  11. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,781
    Ahhh, Patrick, you are such an elegant and polite wordcrafter ... and slippery, too, when you wish to be.

    You will, we all trust, give us the summary of conversations with your old friends about <i>... the apparently correct facts revealed in the documents.</i>, yes?

    And, of course, as the same with any two Economists, two Accounts can offer (at least) four contradictory opinions off the top of their head ... which does NOT address two of your 'apparently correct facts':

    - when Glatz talk turned to expenses & re-imbursement and necessary & proper changes in bylaws and procdures, the dialogue ceased, and

    - the EC 'muzzled' Rively.

    If BobGlatz reported those accurately - and we have NO reason to believe his report was embroidered a/o self-serving in any fashion - BOTH of those are, minimally, disturbing.

    Not to mention are Romper Room no-no's.

    Bob
     
  12. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,781
    peerless ... I'm another messenger (mostly) who believes that data is better than rumor.

    That said: facts on the ground are what they are, and ATA IS a C-3, with both the benefits and inconveniences of such.

    They come as a pair, meaning: bylaws have to be written/revised/updated, documentation and reporting has to be cleaned-up/implemented, ... all these things are NOT unknown to the EC & board.

    Cultural change is hard, and yesterday is always more comfortable than today. etc.

    The EC's job is to get with the program, not stand in the way and increase exposure.

    BTW, have YOU read Glatz's total output?

    Bob
     
  13. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,474
    Location:
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    I received it via email a day or so ago and found it quite eye-opening, to say the least.

    Ed
     
  14. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,193
    ignore rpeerless
     
  15. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,781
    Hi longshooter,

    One has to assume good faith, however ... I (slow learner) figgered that rpeerless is non-serious ... finally.


    Bob
     
  16. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    860
    The effect Mr Glatz's letter is likley to have on the upcoming delegate meeting could be minimized by the current E.C. If they did the following prior to the Grand:


    1) Acknowledge the seriousness of the issues detailed in the letter and promise a detailed review of each suggestion in the letter will be completed with 60 days.


    2) Assure the membership the the results of that review will be made available in it's entirety on the ATA web site.


    3) Discontinue reimbursing the E.C. for travel expenses.


    4) Discontinue the gun give away.


    5) Hire an independent auditing firm to review the ATA's accounting practices and recommend changes.


    6) Assure the membership the report and recommendations from the auditing firm will be made available in it's entirety on the ATA web site.


    7) Publish the list of recommendations from the audit report that will be adopted along with a time line for completing implementation of those recommendations.


    8) Publish a list of recommendations from the audit that will not be adopted and the reasons why will not be adopted.




    Jerry Hauser
     
  17. Kemper

    Kemper Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,003
    what about financial statements for the last 20 years. i could be wrong, but i remember seeing something like 16,000,000 in cash in 1993?

    barry kemper
     
  18. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,195
    Location:
    West Clarksville, NY
    Jerry Hauser,

    I'd be happy if the friggin' targets just became affordable. They automatically go up every year, just like taxes, as that appears to be everyone's "solution" to their cost problems! Give us a break.

    Jon Reitz
     
  19. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Messages:
    1,398
    The EC consists of five (5) people - to have Expense accounts paying out over $100K per year for just 5 people is really an outrage. Even before the change to a "charitable org", there was never a reason to treat the members money like a private little piggy bank. The IRS would not approve of an individual receiving that kind of money when the primary purpose of the travel was fun (shooting) - clearly not business travel.

    To find out a big buck gun allowance was handed out every year prior to 2007 without issuing a 1099 to the receiver is the mark of tax cheaters.

    Meanwhile, the trophy package for the state shoots gets crappier and crappier. These guys ought to be in congress, they would fit right in.
     
  20. smoking357

    smoking357 TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    452
    Why is the ATA structured as a charitable organization? I can understand being a non-profit, but a charitable organization is something quite beyond that.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.