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Rem 209 substitute

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by djpk69, Oct 9, 2007.

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  1. djpk69

    djpk69 TS Member

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    I have lots of American Select and Green Dot powder. Alliant's reloading data only lists a Rem 209 primer for their 1 oz loads.Does anyone know if a Win 209 or Fio 209 can be substituted?? Seems that for the low pressures listed it would only increase slightly by doing so.
     
  2. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    That's usually true. I find most loads using a Rem primer have about a half to a full grain more powder for equivalent performance.

    The above website lists 1 oz loads with winchester primers. I think you may be reading only the STS loads or some such.

    Just about any AA load works in STS hulls in my experience.

    HM
     
  3. djpk69

    djpk69 TS Member

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    You were correct. I didn't mention that I use mostly Rem STS or Nitro hulls. I now see there are all sorts of primers for AA hulls in 1 oz. I think I'll research those and experiment with my STS hulls.
    Thanks
     
  4. Shady Creek

    Shady Creek TS Member

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    Half a gr. less with Win. primers, according to Alliant. GOOD LUCK
     
  5. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Call or email Alliant and get their take on it. I wouldn't be substituting components without knowing what effect it would have on pressures. Remington primers are "generally" one of the mildest. Substituting another primer in a load that is already close to maximum could put you well over the established limits. I'd drop the powder charge a half grain or more and ABSOLUTELY not substitute a primer in any load at, or over, 10k. There are other resouces for data than Alliant. Lyman has a new book out and there are many other sources of data. You can also have your loads tested to be sure. Kevin at Downrange Mfg once said that they can do it for a nominal fee. There are others that offer the service as well. It's worth a few bucks to know for sure, than to have a catastrophic failure and wonder why.
     
  6. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I'm talking about using published one ounce loads with Winchester primers.

    As far as hulls go, AA and STS hulls have the same interior dimensions and work the same.

    Never use a load designed for a large (Fed, Fiocchi, etc) case in a small (AA, STS, Gun club) case.

    HM
     
  7. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I'm talking about using published one ounce loads with Winchester primers.

    As far as hulls go, AA and STS hulls have the same interior dimensions and work the same.

    Never use a load designed for a large (Fed, Fiocchi, etc) case in a small (AA, STS, Gun club) case.

    HM
     
  8. djpk69

    djpk69 TS Member

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    Just loaded a box of STS hulls/Fio primer/1 oz 8's/20 grains of Amer. Select/TGT wad...don't see a "pressure" problem. Around 1250 fps/ 9000 psi judging by above. Will see? Why can't Alliant just list more recipies?
     
  9. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    I've often subsituted WW-209 for STS-209, but always in a load well below MAX. That's a major reason why I choose loads well below max. If I need to make a primer/wad substitution, I'm confident it will remain under max.

    BTW I read postings saying the Fiocchi is very similar to the STS-209.
     
  10. djpk69

    djpk69 TS Member

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    Really? I always thought/heard Fio was closer to a Win 209?
     
  11. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Just what I read. I'm inclined to believe there is not as much practical difference between WW-209 and STS-209 as some currently believe.
     
  12. Roger IL

    Roger IL TS Member

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    Hodgdon manual states Nobel sport 209 may be used in place of Remington primers. Page 46 of 2006 basic manual...Roger
     
  13. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    "Hodgdon manual states Fiocci 616 may be used in place of Remington primers....Roger"

    That's good to know. That page of the manual doesn't show on their new website.
     
  14. Capt. Morgan

    Capt. Morgan TS Member

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    I got a phone call from Kevin at DR Mfg. about ballistics testing. They charge $25 for 5 shells tested for velocity and pressure. They recommend you send them 10 specimens of a load: 5 hand loaded with individually weighed components and 5 from a run when you are loading them in you press. Mark them so they know the difference and send them to DR. To me legal, they should be send marked "ORM-D Small Arms Cartridges" which means UPS as postal service won't ship ammo. Kevin said he's had them show up in brown envelopes but that's your choice. The will return data from their test via mail.
     
  15. Roger IL

    Roger IL TS Member

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    Mrskeet410, Read my post again. (small MISTAKE) Sorry......Roger
     
  16. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Still good information. My annoyance is not with your infomation. It's with the new webite that doesn't have all the info the old website provided.

    Their Basic Manual - Is that the give-away book, or the pay-for book?
     
  17. djpk69

    djpk69 TS Member

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    Basicaly,I'm not talking anything over 9000 psi, so I guess a primer realy doesn't make that much of big difference. I like to go by the book ,but for a 1 oz /under 3 dram load ?? is that a major concern? Surely, not gonna spend $25 for a 5 shell test. I am trying to "save" money on 1 oz versus 1 1/8 oz.
    Just wish Alliant would list more info...other than REM209 primers.
     
  18. kolar12

    kolar12 Member

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    I just wish the price of Remington Primers would go back to $100 a sleve!
     
  19. Matt_G

    Matt_G TS Member

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    @Mrskeet410:

    The 2007 Hodgdon manual I have was a giveaway. My supplier threw it in the box with an order for 2 *lb. jugs of International Clays.
    FYI, the 2007 manual has the same note; that the Nobel Sport 209's being can be substituted for Win 209 primers.
    That is the only primer substitution in the manual I have.
     
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