1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Reloads vs New

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by esoxhunter, Jul 13, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,061
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Well here we go again with another opinion on reloads vs new shells. I know there is a recent thread on this subject which I also entered into. However, I did some research and would like to make a FAIR comparison of this subject. Too many times reloaders compare reloads loaded with low priced components to new premium target loads to make their point. Also people who don't think reloading is economical or just don't want to reload compare premium reloading components that are used to reload and then compare these reloads to the cheaper shells. (Top Gun, Estates, Gun Clubs etc). NOT FAIR. This is what I came up with using current prices from my local supplier.

    Economy Reloads: These reloads contain 18 grains of Promo ($72/8#), magnum shot ($29.50/25#), Fiocchi primer ($100/5000), Downrange wads ($67/5000)
    Note: No allowance made for the hulls as these are economy loads and various hulls can be obtained at very little cost and in many cases free.

    A reloaded box of 12 gauge target loads equate to $3.49/box (1 1/8 oz), $3.26/box (1 oz) These reloads I feel compare with the cheaper brands of new shells.
    New economy shell prices= Top Gun=$4 ($40 a flat) Gun Club=$4.40 ($44 a flat)

    Savings. Top Guns cost $5.10 a flat (1 1/8 oz)and $7.40 a flat (1 oz) more than the reloads. Gun Clubs cost $9.10 a flat (1 1/8oz) $11.40 a flat (1 oz) more than the reloads.

    New premium shells: Remington STS= $57 a flat.

    Premium reloads using 18 grains of Red Dot, ($91 for 8#), Remington primers ($144/5000), Remington wads ($90/5000), Remington magnum shot, ($29.50/25#).
    ($41.70 a flat)for 1 1/8oz and ($39.40 a flat) for 1 oz.

    Savings: Note that I am including $.04 a hull, (STS) depreciated over 5 reloads, ($.20 a box) to be fair.
    New Remington STS cost $15.30 a flat (1 1/8 oz) and $17.60 a flat (1 oz) more than the premium reload.
    Note: I did not include any sales tax as you pay this tax on components or new shells and if you look at it the savings gap widens if you factor in the tax.

    In summation there is no doubt that economy is still there using reloads. If time is a factor or if one does not like to reload that of course is a valid concern. I, for one think that reloading is a part of the shooting experience. However, I have felt that the comparisons should be fair instead of making unfair comparisons to prove a point. Thanks Ed
     
  2. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    510
    Great posting! Thanks for your insights and comparisons on this...I intend to keep trying to reload in order to keep shooting. Best Regards, Ed
     
  3. Old Ranger

    Old Ranger Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    106
    Nice summary, esox.

    I think that you can push the point even further by adjusting your "premium" reloads a little. By using Federal primers and WW12 wads you can dramatically reduce your powder quantities. I don't use Red Dot, but with Clays the difference just between a Federal primed load and a Winchester primed load is 17 gr. vs. 16 gr. That's a savings of $5.76 per 8# jug of Clays, and around here the Federal and Winchester primers cost the same.

    Then there's the intangible factor of shooting your own load, which all of us are egotistical enough to believe are better than a comparable factory load.
     
  4. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,371
    If you place no value on your time then reloading is for you ... Take into consideration the cost of the reloader, the hulls, transporting the componants, storing the componants, the time you sit at the reloader, and so forth ... If you are going to figure it, figure all of it and don't be selective or you can make anything work on paper ... I shoot all new shells and have for many years, to offset the difference between new shells and reloads I worked an hour or two overtime and made up the difference ... What you are doing is like the gambler who never takes into consideration his or her loses and only keeps track of their winnings, hell that way you cannot lose ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  5. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,226
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    My opinion is that some reloads are more consistent than factory fodder, including the premium stuff. Using quality shot, and a whole host of other reloading techniques some people use, makes this possible. That said, some should never reload any kind of ammo. Hap
     
  6. Old Ranger

    Old Ranger Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    106
    WPT,
    Everyone's situation is different. If you've got a job that pays OT then great, that avenue is best for you. I'm salaried and whether I work 40 hours or 50 hours, the pay is the same. Same is true for the retirees, I'd guess. And, I'd much sooner sit at my bench reloading, listening to some nice music and sipping on an Iron City than I would parked in front of the tube watching sitcom reruns or parked on a stool in a smokey bar listening to bad conversation. To each his own.
     
  7. derbyacresbob

    derbyacresbob Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2007
    Messages:
    745
    Location:
    Kern County Ca
    I would have to drive at least 90 miles one way to find good 1 oz 12 ga target loads and the price would not be the best. There is a Wal-Mart about 50 miles away and they don't have any good 1 oz loads. Even if I still shot 1-1/8 oz loads I could not count on Wal-Mart having them at all times. I have all my reloading components delivered to my door and then I can reload what I want to shoot. The only good factory loads I buy are at some of the bigger shoots or at Bass Pro Shops in Las Vegas. The last time I went to Bass Pro Shops they only had 8 boxes of Rem STS 1 oz of 8's. If you buy factory shells or reload you need to figure in the price of gasoline and or shipping.
     
  8. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,061
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    WPT: Some of your input is exactly what this thread is about. (Fairness) I can see your point about the cost of the reloader, however this is hard to compare; as someone might be using a Spolar and the next person might be using a used Grabber that they picked up for $75. The rest of your input is totally unfair. If you want to factor in the transportation and storing, (don't know how you would value that), of the components; then you also have to do the same with new shells. Or are they delivered to the range for you so it alleviates the transportation and storage costs? Also, you will note that in my research of this, hulls were included in the price of the premium reloads. That only seemed fair as people such as yourself could sell their once fired premium hulls. As far as time spent reloading, I addressed this. If you enjoy it you don't factor that in. However, you might say that the savings that you receive from reloading is your "pay". Heck, most progressive type reloaders can produce a flat an hour. If you load 1 oz "premium" reloads your savings equates to $17.60 an hour. Not too shabby. Again, you are "spinning" this to prove your point. Ed
     
  9. straightshooter1

    straightshooter1 Well-Known Member TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,932
    There is one more aspect to reloading-for some it is nearly as enjoyable as shooting and becomes almost a hobby in itself.

    For example, I load many different rifle calibers and the enjoyment of experimenting with the different loads-powders, jacketed and cast bullets-to get the utmost accuracy becomes at least a part of the hobby of shooting.

    With shotgun shell reloading, its a little different for me, maybe because I am relatively new to shotgun sports. I am trying to find the loads that are (1) absolutely reliable (i.e. go "bang"), (2) with the least felt recoil and (3) which will smoke the bird (if I do my part-which I often fail to do with some regularity).

    I am loading 12, 20, 28 and 410. The first three are loaded on two Dillon SL900s (I just purchased the second one through TS.com) and the 410s are loaded on a MEC 9000G. I have two Lee Load-Alls, one in 12 and the other in 20 which I use to load steel (one club here requires steel).

    So, it's true that the cost of the machines probably should be added into the price of loaded box of shells and probably the time spent, too. But, if I live long enough and if my vision remains clear enough to keep shooting, there will come a time when the machines are "paid for" and, in the interim, I am having a great time reloading for my new sports.

    Bob
     
  10. Gold E

    Gold E TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2006
    Messages:
    481
    Shooting is a hobby. Time spent at the range is not billable.

    Reloading is a part of that hobby. I don’t get to invoice anyone for this time either.

    I shoot because I like to shoot. I reload because I like to reload.
     
  11. TomP

    TomP TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Messages:
    23
    I just wonder where you get shot for $29.50. Here on Long Island, the best I can get is $36.00 (just raised from $30.00 recently). No sense in shipping it from mail order as 25 pounds would cost too much more!I do agree that the time spent at the loader is down time and not billable. Even discounted(locally) ammo is $4.00 a box plus tax, so with buying hulls and other consumables I don't save much.Be that as it may because of the fun factor I will be reloading for a while!
     
  12. Phil E

    Phil E TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    390
    Very impressive discussion, Ed, and very fair comparison. I notice that you use $30 magnum shot in your economy reload, and 4-cent hulls in your premium reloads, and correctly disregard tax. This ensures that it's a more than fair comparison, and this should put the whole matter to rest. I think we nearly all agree labor (value of our time) does not belong in this equation, and the machine's cost is amortized to zero over time. A further factor is mental: I have total confidence in my reloads, and have not had one blooper or bad shell after getting through my first 2 years of reloading. Thanks. Phil E
     
  13. Shady Creek

    Shady Creek TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    573
    Old Ranger,well said. GOOD LUCK
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    I agree with Hap. I have been looking at some of the discount shells and I believe that reloads are superior to the ones I have cut open. So far I have looked at shot and powder performance over different temperatures.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    524
    The reloads I've shot for years kick less and pattern as well as or better than the "premium" shells and MUCH better than the "promo" shells with their steel swelling heads and pea pod flat spot shot
     
  16. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    8,371
    My point is well made and being confirmed by some of the responses, that being you can make anything work on paper ... When I tabulate shooting expenses I factor in all of the expenses which includes traveling to and from as well as going to buy ammo and taking it back home or to the shoot with me ... I'm retired and cannot find the time to reload ... Hell, I hardly find time to shoot much anymore yet manage to stay pretty busy ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  17. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,226
    I reload becouse, Having the shells i want at Dicks/walmart/local joe is always spotty. The running debate at our club is. Oh yeah i can load STS for 3.00 a box. They will go on saying I'm using star chilled shot, promo powder, claybuster wads , and CCI primers. My thing is your no longer loading STS just using STS shells. Even using remington products I can save a bit on reloading per box. Time/loader not accounted for. I dont mind a hour or two loading better than the crap on tv. My big problem now is Cant get remington primers/wads with out travel or paying haz mat and shipping which then blows any savings at all. Also shot is tough to come by. I scored 4 bags for 20 bucks. This will probably be the last batch i load for some time. Regular supplier just listed shot will be per order only take take what comes in and oh yeah 38.00 per bag. last batch i paid 27.50 Not to happy. Im new to reloading and soon to be not reloading.
     
  18. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,399
    Old Ranger, are you saying there is something wrong with parking oneself on a stool in a smokey bar listening to bad conversation?

    Say it ain't so. If it's true then I have a misspent life.
     
  19. smartass

    smartass TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,099
    I'm impressed that steve's reload kick less than factory shells. He must have some secrets that aren't available to the common man, as well as the ability to repeal the laws of physics.
     
  20. gcbluerock

    gcbluerock Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    168
    GREAT JOB ED!!!!!

    Anything in the world that is "custom made" is vastly supperior to the user. If it was not, then we would not know what "custom made" is. That applies equally to shotgun shells and anything else anyone cares to compare it to.

    The naysayers of "custom made" products are vastly useful in society. They are "average". They buy Chevrolets and expect them to perform like Cadilacs. Without them we would not have the benchmark "average".
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.