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reloading/ wads

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by dhip, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. dhip

    dhip Active Member

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    OK,New to shooting trap and reloading.After reading many threads about measuring powder,etc.I do go to manufactors websites for info.But alas got one small problem or concern.
    Here's my question.
    I was showed,told,whatever to use remington TGT 12 wads for my loads.Have to admit ,right on the bag it stated 1oz or 1 1/8 oz loads they're supposed to be good for.
    However,I use Green Dot,and on Alliants website the ONLY load listed for Remmington Hulls(which I'm currently loading),is for 1 oz. loads.using the TGT 12 wads.I'm currently shooting 1 1/8 loads.
    I have been loading 1 1/8 loads using the powder measurements listed for the other green Dot loads. They seem to shoot fine. Am I and my friend, wrong,and where can you find out cross over info,Is the wad really critical,as long as you use it for the load on the wad manufactors bag?It gets a little confusing for a New person loading,and I don't see where too many shooters use a whole lot of different wads except,as I've said,using a wad for the shot load it was designrd for.

    Doug H.
     
  2. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    The TGT12 is primarily a 1 Oz wad but can be used for 1 1/8 Oz loads if you you use a high density powder like Titegroup. For the 1 Oz loadings use a powder like CLAYS or Red Dot with the TGT12 wad and 1 Oz of shot.

    The powder you are using (Green Dot) is best when used in 1 1/8 Oz loads. If you want to use Green Dot get some Figure 8 wads or similar and load 1 1/8 Oz of shot to 1,200 FpS or a bit more.

    Stick with the Remington hulls.

    Two wads, two powders , two distictly different loads. I understand your reluctance to buy a bunch of different components but trust me you will shoot them up. Trying to make that perfect shell without the right stuff will cause you nothing but grief, I know because I have been there and tried that.

    Good Luck and don't hesitate to ask if you run into anymore difficulties.
     
  3. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    You'll find there are several wads that can be used for all your loads if your powder's bulkiness permits. I use PB powder and used the TGT-12S for my one-ounce and 1-1/8 loads for years with zero wad pressure. I'm currently using Downrange Jammer XL-1s for both. In the past, I could do that with Green Dot and Clays International, too.

    The shot cups of a lot of one-ounce and 1-1/8 wads are the same size, so the only real difference is a tad more weight in the one-ounce wad, as the cushion section of them is a little longer. If you contact wad and powder manufacturers, you'll learn that they have loading data for odd combinations of components that actually work well together but aren't popular enough to warrant publishing.

    For example, when I shot Federal Gold Medals for 18 months or so several years ago, I thought the Claybuster CB-4100 "Lightning" wad would be a good do-all eight-petal wad for their plastic hulls. It is marketed as a 7/8 or one-ounce wad but has a shotcup with the same depth as a 1-1/8 wad. I called Claybuster with my inquiry and was transferred to the gentleman who owned the company at that time, who told me that I had stumbled upon his favorite combination - a Gold Medal hull and the Lightning wad - and that he used them for every recipe he loaded. But you will not find any published data for the CB-4100 wad with 1-1/8 ounces of shot.

    Don't be afraid to reach out the component manufacturers for help and guidance. In the end, you are their customer and they want you to buy more of their products.

    Ed
     
  4. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Doug, you got two good answers here, but I would go with wolfram. It is almost never a mistake to use the wad intended for the hull and load you are using. So stick with Remington STS or Gun club hulls. Use the TGT-12 for 1 oz loads (with a powder faster than Green Dot) and the Fig-8 wad for your 1 1/8oz loads with Green Dot. There will be plenty of time to experiment with other powders and wads later, after you have more reloading experience. Remember, just because a load is listed in a manual does not mean all the components fit properly.

    BTW, when you have a safety question, call the powder company and ask. If you called Alliant and talked to the ballistician and asked if it was safe to use the TGT-12 wad with your load, I know exactly what the answer would be.
     
  5. dhip

    dhip Active Member

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    thanks for the replies,mentioned the fact to friend who suggested TGT 12's,he's bringing a document to show me it's a safe load.

    Doug H.
     
  6. dhip

    dhip Active Member

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    ok
    Just got off phone with Alliant about this question,The only problem thsy found with TGT 12's and 1 1/8 load is the crimp.
    Gella told me If I'm getting a good crimp,it's fine to use them.
    He said they found the TGT's are a tad taller than figur 8's,but assured me,crimp was only issue.Even ok'd it in older AA shells.
    So, I've been getting good crimps,so I'll use this case up and maybe check out some of the others you fellas reccommended next time I buy my supplies.

    Thanks again for input,really enjoy this wesite.

    Doug H.
     
  7. BeerKing

    BeerKing Active Member

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    AverageEd, how much PB with your 11/8 loads. I do not get good crimps with the TGT12 wad dropping 22.5 grns. of PB. I have to use the Fig 8 which I don't mind doing but would just like to know why it does not work for me. I try different wad pressures and still doesn't work. BK
     
  8. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    BK, I dropped 20.5 and 22.5 grains of PB with between zero wad pressure and just enough to make the indicator move a hair and my crimps are flat and dime-deep. I use a MEC 9000GN converted to a 9000E.

    The photo below was used in an article I wrote on setting up a loader. The shell on the left is the one I photographed throughout the loading process; the other three are factory loads.

    Ed


    [​IMG]
     
  9. BeerKing

    BeerKing Active Member

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    Ed, good looking loads, some of mine start out looking that good but begin to tulip after sitting around. I load the same 22.5 with just enough to tickle the wad pressure indicator on a 9000H. Have loaded shells for 35 years and have ran into a lot of different situations. Downrange, WAA12, Remington, all of the 1 1/8 wads cannot be used as the TGT12 states it can.
     
  10. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Doug,

    You haven't wandered into an 'unsafe' situation with the components you mentioned. It is just a matter of what fits in the hull and what combination is going to give you the best results.

    It is good that you are taking the time to look into things before you head down the wrong road. Your reward for this dilligence is that you will be producing shells that are like Ed's photo where the handload is almost indistiguishable from the factory loads.
     
  11. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what to tell you. When I load a flat of hulls for the ninth time, I set them aside for dove hunting or trapshooting in rainy weather. I recently shot a flat of those shells that were loaded three or four years ago and none of the crimps were trying to open. In fact, I honestly don't think I've ever had that concern. My shells look the same years later as they did when they were loaded.

    Maybe - and I'm guessing here - your problem is in your crimp die adjustments. If you're not loading with a lot of wad pressure, there shouldn't be any upward pressure on your crimps. I'd play around with cam and die adjustments if I was experiencing what you are with those components and small amount of wad pressure.

    Here's why a TGT-12 will work with 1-1/8 loads. The shot cups of the FIG-8 and the TGT-12 are of the same depth, so nothing is gained there with the FIG-8. And you can see that there is plenty of room left for a dense powder like PB.


    [​IMG]


    Next, here is a photo of my loader's wad pressure indicator while loading shells. It indicates no wad pressure and you can see how deeply I seat my wads by the markings on the shot drop tube.


    [​IMG]


    Well, that one really doesn't show the drop tube setting due to the glare from the camera's flash. Here's another that shows that setting better.


    [​IMG]


    All I can tell you is that it works for me. Again, maybe it would be worth taking a look at your crimping adjustments.

    Ed
     
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