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reloading problem, need help

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by mr.mark, Jul 2, 2007.

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  1. mr.mark

    mr.mark Member

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    I have been loading a 1 oz. load in win aa hulls with the Downrange XL-1 and downrange jammer XL-1, up until a couple weeks ago there was no problem. all of a sudden I have developed a problem.

    The wad doesn't go far enough down in the hull at the wad seating station and when it gets to the starter crimp station it can't push the wad down far enough and shot spills out the top of the hull.

    I am using a mec 650, I have tried with varying the wad pressure from 0-60 and no help.

    Using rem hulls there the wad goes on down in the hull and no problem.

    I have been carefully disecting these hulls to see where the problem might be and the bottom of the wad seems to be hanging up on the tob of the base wad on the AA hull.

    Does mec make a tool that expands this section of the wad as it deprimes the hull?

    Why has this just started and not been a problem before?

    I am using E3 powder by the way but only 18 grains and it is not obstructing the wad from going in the hull.

    Thanks,
    Mr. Mark
     
  2. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    are the shells once fired or have they been loaded more than once rick
     
  3. trapman69

    trapman69 Member

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    I had the same problem even worse with 7/8oz loads.
    I have gone to nothing but Remington hulls. I think the New AA hulls are
    junk. I'm sure there will be some that say otherwise. If your needing to
    keep hulls I would suggest trying diffent wads. Have you recently bought new
    wads?? It is possible that if you bought new bag of wads they could have a
    bigger outside diameter than your last batch. This was something else I
    didn't like I couldn't load Claybusters without reseting everything. The
    remington hulls just load a lot easier. Anyway thats my 2cents.
     
  4. mr.mark

    mr.mark Member

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    I have used both. The once fired don't seem to have the problem. The ones that have been reloaded before are having a problem

    When I use once fired hulls there is no problem.

    And only some of the multiple reloaded and fired hulls have the problem.

    The problem is intermittent like 1 in every 2-3 shells.
     
  5. mr.mark

    mr.mark Member

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    I agree the remington hulls both sts and nitro reload much better and give alot less trouble with a better looking hull.

    Unfortunately my free hulls I'm getting are all once fired AA and I can't seem to get a line on any rem hulls. Seems like not to many people shooting those.

    I will call mec in the morning and see if they have any suggestions.

    Thanks again,
    Mr. Mark Sheets
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Mark- I, like you, have a large supply of AA hulls and a switch to Rem. cases is not practical. When the new AA cases came out, on my PW all I had to do is slightly increase the wad pressure and raise my crimp starter. I do not know about what adjustments would be required on the MEC loader. The new wads available for the last year or so are also slightly different to accommodate the change in AA hulls.

    With a few adjustments to my press, I have found that the AA hulls work very well for me. If I did not have something like 20,000 once fired AA hulls and around 60 flats of new AA factory ammunition, I would consider changing to Remington or Federal.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Are you using 'old' style or 'new' style hulls?
    The 'old' AA's had LARGE print of 'AA" inside a box, the 'new' AA's have smaller 'A's' and no box...

    Here's where your problem may lie - the old AA's were a one piece hull - the new ones are two piece - if you look down inside the new ones you can see a 'ring' where the two pieces were fused together - there have been reports of seperation here, and it would make sense that if there were problems here it would stop the wad from seating all the way down...

    You say once fired shells are OK - that the problem is with hulls loaded multiple times - I think you might be having problems with early signs of seperation here.

    The next issue is that there have been reports of this internal piece getting lodged in barrels (I've never seen it - only head/read about it) - which could lead to a bulged or blown barrel...
     
  8. C H S

    C H S TS Member

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    Switch to CB wads instead. Claybuster changed the shape of the lip of the shot cup and put a slight taper to it so that it doesn't get caught on the edge of the base wad on the way in.

    Andy
     
  9. jerryw

    jerryw TS Member

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    I am loading 1 oz. loads with the new style AA hulls using 18 gr. Red Dot, CB-WAA12S wads. I initially had a problem wrinkling the hulls. I called MEC and they had me raise the cam on station 5 just a hair. That pretty well eliminated the problem. I still occasionally get a wrinkled hull but not often. I am loading them once and dropping them on the ground. I don't trust these hulls. As soon as I use up this 5 or 6 thousand hulls I am going to go to STS hulls.

    Good Luck
    Jerry Walker
     
  10. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    the problem is the second and 3 4 loads the E3 is hotter and will wrinkle the top of the base liner go back to red or green and use up the shells the new AA is not much good past 3 times but there is some of the old ones F/S on here got some old ones last week on ebay for $23 a 1000 that included shipping and he put about 40 empty boxes in there that CB taper that was mentiond will hang on some 3 and 4 loaded times and can come out and stay in barrel i had one fall about 10 feet in front but the brass came off and left the case and stopped next shell from chambering rick
     
  11. oletymer

    oletymer Member

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    That is one of the longest run on sentences I have ever seen.
     
  12. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    "I have been carefully disecting these hulls to see where the problem might be and the bottom of the wad seems to be hanging up on the top of the base wad on the AA hull."

    A clever design, if there ever was one.
     
  13. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Sir Mark, the newer AA wads and those meant to copy them, have a bit of taper to the powder cup and this facilitates the wad passing by the slight shoulder found in the new style, AA HS, 2 piece hull. Unless I'm terribly misinformed, the Down Range XL-1 hull was originally a "Hawk" design for 1 1/8 oz, straight walled hulls (like Federals). Down Range acquired the Hawk gear and their wads are similar in design to Hawks. If I'm not terribly misinformed, you are basically trying to jam a wad that was originally designed for 1 1/8 oz loads in straight walled hulls into a tapered hull having a seperate base wad with a slight shoulder and use it for 1 oz.

    Now, I use the DR XL-1 wad for 1 oz loads in the STS/Nitro Hulls with fine success but suspect they could still be used for 1 1/8 oz loads in Federal hulls or similar. I suggest you resort to the tapered, one piece hulls like the old style AAs or Remingtons and your problem will go away....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  14. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    Try the Green Duster wad. You will have no problems. Fred
     
  15. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    hey OLELYMER if you dont have anything to offer keep you keyboard between your cheeks
     
  16. Lkn4rocks

    Lkn4rocks TS Member

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    *

    Mr. Mark, if I may comment, BDodd is absolutely correct about the XL-1 wads intended use in a straight wall hull.... If you have an excess of those wads then come up with some Federal Gold Metal hulls or their clones and use your wads up in them.... A good replacement for the WAA12SL wad in a new style AA hull is the #GT 9210-12 from Micro Technologies.... These wads are as good as or better than Claybuster and usually a $ or $$ less per bag..... Their web site can be located at www.dusterwads.com. Shoot well and break 'em all!

    .
     
  17. mr.mark

    mr.mark Member

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    Talked to Keving @ downrange today about the problem. He assured me that the problem was in the wads seal so good that it is creating an air pocket in the powder area and not letting the wad go all the way down. He said to push the wad in slower, have done this but to no avail.

    About ever 3 or 4 shells now one of them won't let the wad go down far enough. It is most definetely catching on the ring of the base wad in the AA hulls. Is there a tool I can add to my reloader, such as a primer punch that is bigger in the case expanding area to push these base wads back out against the side of the hull?

    Thanks for all the great advice guys,

    Mr. Mark Sheets
     
  18. Lkn4rocks

    Lkn4rocks TS Member

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    Mr.Mark,

    In you last posting you imply that there is a measurable gap between the ID of the hull and the OD of the base wad of the new style AA hulls.... As in “Is there a tool I can add to my reloader, such as a primer punch that is bigger in the case expanding area to push these base wads back out against the side of the hull?”

    If this is the case my advice is, that you should contact the manufacture of the hulls or throw those defective hulls away because there should not be a measurable gap for powder to migrate into between the base wad and the sidewall of the hull.

    Also if you have an air gap, as you stated in you first posting, between the face of the gas seal and the powder charge this will result in poor, erratic and sometimes unsafe ignition of the powder.

    The least expensive and simplest thing for you, in my opinion, is to either procure some straight wall hulls for your existing wads or if the hulls aren't really defective, procure some different wads that are designed for tapered wall hulls for use in your existing new style AA hulls....

    I have found that if I apply K.I.S.S. to most of the things I do, they always turn out in good form, than when I complicate the issue.

    .
     
  19. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    mr.mark

    I'll agree that the problem may well be that the wads are not a good choice for the newer Win AA hulls. I looked at a close up of the wads you mentioned and saw a few distinct features that may be at the root of the cause. Number one, the over powder cup appears to be deeper than most other suitable wads with a very thin edge. The other difference is that most wads intended for the Win AA hulls appear to have three or four small channels placed around the over powder cup that may be for allowing the air to escape past the cup when loading. The wads you mentioned do not show that they have this and are smooth in the close ups on the Downrange website. I have had similar troubles using wads that did not have these channels or vents in the newer AA hulls. They should work just fine in the Remington hulls.

    A solution if you must use these wads may be to press them lightly into a cone or funnel just before loading them into the hull. That way, the bottom edge of the powder cup would be pressed down to a smaller diameter temporarily, and should bypass the top of the base wad easily.
     
  20. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    Mr Mark; I had the same problem with the Jammer XL wads! I really like the wads but have resorted to using them only in the OLD style AA cases or in the Remington STS ,NITRO hulls. I have 1000's of the new AA hulls and I purchase the Claybuster clone of the WW12SL wad and they fit great in the NEW style AA hull. This was the easy FIX for me. Good Luck,PJ
     
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