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Reloading problem. Need advice.

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Questor, Jan 9, 2008.

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  1. Questor

    Questor TS Member

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    The following load is a widely published one and uses a relatively light powder charge. Maximum powder charge is about 2 grains heavier. The problem I'm having is that the crimp does is not nice and flat. Its domed upward. I am using a MEC 9000 reloader. The problem only occurs with some of the shells.

    The load is
    Winchester AA hulls
    genuine Winchester WAA12SL wads
    17.5 grains of Hodgdon Clays powder
    1 ounce of #8 shot.
    Win 209 primer.

    It seems like there is not enough capacity in the hull to hold all the powder, wad, and shot.

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks.
     
  2. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I use almost exactly the same load, except I use Remington hulls.

    Try about 50-60 lb of wad presure before the pre-crimp. That buckles the wad and allows for a good crimp.
     
  3. setter

    setter Member

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    Make sure that the wad seating ram is low enough to fully seat the wad. Some wad pressure will be necessary.
     
  4. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    You may have hulls that vary in length. Some of your hulls may have been reloaded more times than they are capable of holding tight crimps. You may have an old batch of wads that have become too stiff with age and push the crimps open. You may have to switch to a powder like 700-X which occipies less space in your shell. The possibility may exist for other issues that I never encountered!!
     
  5. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Not every published load fits well. So try one of several things. First, if it is only occasional, check your wad seating technique. You may be folding a wad petal in when loading. That will lead to a bulged crimp.

    Second, you may have to apply a little more wad seating pressure. When Winchester went to the new hulls, they recommended up to 80lbs of seating pressure. I didn't have to go anywhere near that high, but I did need more than the 20lbs i used for everything else.

    Third, you may have to adjust your crimp starter and crimp dies.
     
  6. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    This is my all time favorite load. Like you, I have trouble getting a flat crimp to hold on AA hulls- especially if they have been loaded a few times. My answer is to use STS or Gunclub hulls with CLAYS. If you need to use the AA hulls try 17g 700X with the wads you described.
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Questor, what (number) powder bushing are you using?

    Neil
     
  8. Questor

    Questor TS Member

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    Wow! Thanks for the help!!!

    Wolfram:
    I think I'll try the STS hulls because they are available to me.

    Neil Winston:
    I believe it's the #32 bushing. In any case, it measures out to 17.5 grains when I weigh the charge.
     
  9. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    700x or Titewad if you decide to try a more dense powder. I like Titewad almost as much as I like Clays....almost. Never tried 700x but others like it.

    Good catch by Neil, too. I assumed you had measured your powder. That can be a bad assumption with some folks on a forum like this.

    It's a good thing that you are indeed measuring your powder charges.

    You might also try the Downrange XL-1 wad to substitute for the WAA12SL with this load. Won't help you with the crimp, but it might save you a few pennies, and the Downrange wads are very nice and slick and go through your wad fingers easy.
     
  10. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Using the WAA12 or clone wad will work in the hull and load you are using.
     
  11. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Yeah, last resort, use the 1 1/8 oz wad (WAA 12 or clone) which will have a deeper shot pocket and reduce the problem of convexiocity of the crimp - yes, I coined that word. BUT, I'm unsure why the problem unless the wad is hanging up on the AA HS hull base. I too use that load in STS hulls without problems. Is the crimp deep enough? Should be the thickness of a dime. Are you seating the wad firmly? Try 20 lbs of pressure or more - though I don't know why you should need it. Good luck....Bob Dodd
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Questor, it's never going to work with that bushing; the volume is too big. Do what Bob Dodd suggests and use a WAA12 wad and your troubles are over. And yes, I've done it for exactly the reason you describe. With old compression-formed AA hulls it worked, sort of, but with the new ones it doesn't and if you let them sit around, they will probably open up and spill the shot out, but usually not until you have loaded a summer's worth.

    Neil
     
  13. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Questor, I used to load almost the identical load in my Pacific loader. The only difference is I used 17.2gr (by weight). I used the new dark gray two piece hulls. Once I did as I suggested above, I had no problems. Before I made adjustments to the wad seating pressure (60lbs) and the crimp starter, I had the problems Neil described. After the adjustments, they crimped perfectly and stayed that way.

    Bob is correct in his supposition. The wad base gets hung up on the lip of the base wad. Additional pressure was enough to overcome it in the Pacific press, because the wad entered vertically. In my RCBS Grand, it is all too easy to have the wad insert at a slight angle. If it catches, it results in a crushed shell in at the crimping station. That's why I switched to STS hulls. Also, they are easier to get, and cheaper.
     
  14. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    I just went back to my old records. The load I color coded as being the best was 17.6gr of Clays for approx. 1200fps. That's your load plus 0.1 grain.
     
  15. oletymer

    oletymer Member

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    Try the Down Range DRA 12 pink wad. It is slightly shorter that the Winchester and allows perfect crimps in AA hulls.
     
  16. chipped1

    chipped1 TS Member

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    Dump the AA's for Remington STS or Gun Clubs. Use a #31 for ~ 17.3 or a #32 for ~ 17.8 gr. of Clays. If you want to experiment a little more try the Windjammer or Downrange wads.

    Chip
     
  17. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    My absolute favorite 1 oz load with the AA gray hulls is the #29 MEC bushing with 700X, Claybuster pink AA WSL clone wad and the AA 209 primer. Velocity is about 1200 fps or just under.
     
  18. gcbluerock

    gcbluerock Member

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    get THE wad that fits from Downrange Mfg. it will solve your problem

    <a href="http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o237/gcbluerock/?action=view&current=dra-12-pink.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  19. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Rev, I don't think you're mistaken. My thoughts on more pressure would be simply to ensure seating the wad through the shoulder of the AA HS base wad. However, I'd still worry about the wad getting cocked in that process. Moving on to the STS hull is Quester's best advice....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  20. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    rev,

    More wad pressure buckles the column between the seal and the shot cup, effectively shortening the wad. Hence, better crimps.

    Works for me.
     
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