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reloading problem metalic cartridges.

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by halfmile, Mar 10, 2009.

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  1. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    2 things here:

    First of all, you need the case neck after resizing to be smaller than the bullet or it will fall ou, move arond, or other undesirable effects.

    Your pilot just has to hold the case still s it can be trimmed.

    Secondly, the 1.750 trim length specified is not necessarily what you need. I found that my chambers were .020 longer than that. Of course this was after I trimmed 2000 cases for prairie dog rounds.

    There is a nifty little tool from Sinclair that you measure this with. It cost me 4.50 for the 22 cal size.

    It's just a piece of .224 round stock, about 5/8 inch ling that is turned down to fit into the case on one end.

    You shorten a case an push this baby in a little, then closee it in the gun. Then, Voila! you meaasure it to get your chamber length.

    I probably never have to trim 223's again.

    HM
     
  2. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    First off make sure your turning the cutter clockwise, It only cuts in 1 direction. The problem with trimming brass before full length resizing is the brass will grow once sized. Your better off with a undersized pilot and trimming after resizing then chamfering the inside/outside of mouth. Avoid shooting brass that is .020 or more longer then SAAMI OAL because the end of the case will be in the throat area and squeezing the bullet tighter which increases pressure
     
  3. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Toolmaker, that's why I bought the $4.50 Sinclair tool. I want to know the length of my chamber, because I need all the neck I can get since my throats are somewhat eroded. 5 thou is plenty of clearance for case length.

    HM
     
  4. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    HalfMile,I am curious what makes you think that throat erosion has anything to do with case length? As the throat gets burnt out the lands get eroded away not the neck chamber area. You would have to load the bullets longer to avoid excessive bullet jump, but your limited to your magazine length if your not single feeding them.
     
  5. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    I've haven't measured my pilots recently, but there is a difference between what they measure and what caliber they're meant for. That .220 pilot might be meant for a .243. I'll check my RCBS pilots when I get home at lunch time.

    ~Michael
     
  6. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Have you measured the wall thickness of a cartridge?

    I case neck trim for length and neck turn for thickness.

    There can be LOTS of variation in the wall thickness and when you re-size to a uniform OD different thicknesses will give different ID's.

    Sinclair sells a tool for this (essentially a hand driven mini-lathe) and I turn the necks prior to re-sizing.

    Once re-sized (full length) I reload and fire in the rifle the shell will be used in (assuming one caliber to one gun ratio). Then I go to neck sizing only (if you are going to 'feed' more than one rifle you will need to full length size).

    After this is when I trim to length...

    A bit drawn out, but it pays big dividends in accuracy.

    David D
     
  7. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    .220 is the correct pilot size. If it's not going in, I'd say your case necks are too thick. Trim them, or try different brass.

    ~Michael
     
  8. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Toolmaker, my guns are single shot. Regarding throat erosion, it requires the bullets to be seated a little further out for best accuracy. Eventually I will need to rechamber, one gun has 8 thousand rounds through it and still shoots good.

    So If I can leave my cases a little longer, it gives more gripping area and I can seat the bullets a little further out.

    Yes, I know throat erosion has nothing to do with case length(see Mensa thread)
    but the fact the chamber is reamed with an extra .020" of room for case length lets me get the bullets a little closer to the lands.

    SAAMI has a standard of 1.750 for case length, and after checking with the Sinclair tool I find I have the extra length.

    It has to do with the reamer used in chambering the barrel, how it's ground determines the case OAL. This is not to be confused with freebore which is another matter.

    HM
     
  9. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Halfmile, I do my own chambering on the 6PPC cartridge. The neck area of a shell is built into the form of the reamer, are you confusing this with a throating reamer? If your SAAMI spec. 223 chamber is .020 longer it was done with a custom reamer. A 223 neck runs around .203 long, throating reamers if not for a standard caliber are ground for the given ogive of a match bullet.
     
  10. redhawk44

    redhawk44 Member

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    The problem is that your expander ball in your die is too small.

    It should be .001 to .002 smaller than bullet diameter, not .004 smaller.

    Of course if you really want that much bullet pull, it won't hurt a thing to just polish off a couple of .000s off the trimer pilot.
     
  11. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Toolmaker, I just use the tool to measure the chamber. Trim to length is 1.760".

    If I use the tool to measure the chamber it shows me a total length of 1.775.This seems to assume a 15 thou clearance beyond the 1.760 length of case as shown in the drawing in my manual.

    The bottom line here is that a case would have to be longer than 1.775 before chambering a round would put any stress on the neck where the bullet is seated.

    So if my cases are 1.770 I really don't have to trim yet, and the extra bit of length will hold the bullet a little better. I use 40 grain bullets which are rather short and feel the extra length is an advantage, albeit a small one.

    I was looking at Clymer's website for the reamer drawings they used to have but unfortunately it's being redone, or I would refer to it.

    Anyway, for a lousy 4.50 I think it's a great tool. And I use it.

    On another note, do you know why Dave Manson's reamers cost less? Just curious.

    HM
     
  12. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Halfmile, I don't know why Manson charges less then Clymer, I use Dave Kiff reamers. Kiff used to work for Manson,or Pacific Tool (PTG) at one time.
     
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