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Reloading ? Pressure & Recoil

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by citadel, Jul 31, 2012.

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  1. citadel

    citadel Active Member

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    WOW DID I OPEN UP A CAN OF WORMS WITH THIS QUESTION. LOTS OF DIFFERENT OPINIONS BUT I PUT TOGETHER A NICE 11/8TH Oz LOAD TODAY USING 14.5 GR OF CLAYS AND FIO 616 PRIMERS AND A CLAY BUSTER WAD. SHOT VERY NICELY. THANKS TO EVERY ONE FOR THEIR HELP. DOUG
    A question for all the very knowledgable reloaders out there. Being a wimp I want to reduce the recoil but still shoot 1 1/8th oz loads. I know that I can reduce the shot load and reduce recoil. I have done that and it works fine but now I want to load some 1 1/8th loads and am looking for the lowest recoil I can find at that shot weight.

    Will reloading a formula found on the powder manufacturers charts that indicate lower pressure and lower speeds result in a reduction of recoil? I though I would ask the experts before I start going out and buying different wads and primers and trying different formulas. Just to make it clear. I am only going to use manufacturer approved combinations of powder, wads and primers. I am not going off on my own and experimenting.
    Can anyone give me any advice on this stuff.
    Thanks,
    Doug
     
  2. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

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    The slower the shot the less recoil. really light loads go down to 1050 fps from the factory. I think that they could be loaded slower than that but not sure what type of breaking power you would have on the target. Try working with it a little. get some 1 1/8 wads and load up for different speeds and see how much reciol reduction you can feel with different loads. Recoil is a really subjective topic and i'm some others will chime in soon.

    Bob
     
  3. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    There are three ways to reduce recoil. Lower velocity, lower payload weight, add more weight to the gun. Thats it period. Its simple physics. Read the above link.

    Wayne
     
  4. Limpy100

    Limpy100 Member

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    Citadel;If I were you,I would get a recoil reducer in stead of doing it your way.A lite load of 1 ounce has enough force to break a target but trying to go lite on the powder with a o larger pay load won't do it.
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Although slower powder do give perceived lesser recoil....
     
  6. Limpy100

    Limpy100 Member

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    Big m is right,you could try some 800x.
     
  7. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Lower speed, yes; lower pressure, no

    Lighter load at a slower speed, definitely.

    Ignore any bull you hear about soft shooting primers, powders or wads. It don't mean a thing.

    Keller
     
  8. leadvail

    leadvail Member

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    Does anyone know why a mininum pressure (PSI) is required to operate recoil operated autos, but not a certain velocity if pressure does not effect recoil?

    Just always wanted to know is all.

    Bob
     
  9. emmylou1

    emmylou1 Active Member

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    Here we go again,this is gonna be good,save my seat...............
     
  10. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    citadel:

    BigM-Perazzi's comment is predicated on the notion that recoil is a cycle which happens over time. With slower burning powders, the cycle is spread over a slightly longer time frame than the equivalent cycle created by faster burning powders. The actual recoil is the same regardless of what powder is used. However, spreading the recoil over more time is believed by some to result in less "perceived" recoil.

    Here's the rub. The difference in elapsed time for the slowest vs. fastest powder is so short as to be imperceptible to the shooter. If the time difference is imperceptible, any difference in perceived recoil would likely be imperceptible as well.

    As always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If someone perceives less recoil when using a slower powder, good for them.

    sissy
     
  11. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Perceived recoil is also called voodoo recoil.


    jim brown
     
  12. citadel

    citadel Active Member

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    Thanks everyone. Some good ideas.
    Doug
     
  13. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Ok, since I'm getting Bitch-slapped here,

    Winchester Super-handicap powder with a Downrange Windjammer wad @1255 fps gives less felt recoil than the same powder with another wad at the same fps.

    The Downrange wad, being 8 gr lighter, produces less recoil due to the reduced weight of the ejecta....

    so, actually, it's the wad, but, it's the powder recipe that contained that wad and happened to be less pressure...
     
  14. kraiza

    kraiza Active Member

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    I don't care for high recoil ether. So What I did was to go to 1oz loads at 1200 pfs with Clays.
    I have seen my score go up because of less fatigue from the 1 1/8 loads.
    If you must have 1 1/8 because of the mental handy cap think you will break more targets get a recoil reducer like PFS if it fits your gun. Or a soft touch.
    These recoil reducer work and then you my shoot what you want.
    I still think 1 oz loads work. I used then for trap sporting clays, Skeet and fitasc.
     
  15. bkt514

    bkt514 Active Member

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    I would do a Google Search of Trap ShootersUSA magazine. Several of their writers have researched and written articles on this subject, as well as, given some sugested lite loads that are extremely effective. From the 16 yd. line, 7/8 oz. or 1 oz loads are more than efficient. I personally like 7/8 oz of #8 at 1200 fps, using Alliant Extra Lite, and or 1 oz. of #8's @ 1150 fps. Others will have a differant opinion, just be sure to follow reloading guide book.
     
  16. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    WayneO and BigM are both correct... Velocity, Powder Weight, Ejecta Weight and Gun Weight... those are the variables - PSI is not a variable in the formula... Slower burning powders and recoil absorbing devices can help to affect perceived recoil, but the perception is subjective to each shooter... from Hodgdon...


    spitter_2008_030371.jpg


    ...for your review and consideration,

    Jay
     
  17. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Reduce the amount of pressure and you will reduce the amount of recoil. When you get to zero pressure you will have no recoil, I guarantee it. HMB
     
  18. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote><I>"The Downrange wad, being 8 gr lighter, produces less recoil due to the reduced weight of the ejecta...."</I></blockquote>So let's see... a wad that's 8 grains lighter weighs .0183 oz. less... that's 18+ thousandths of an ounce. Far more recoil reduction would be realized by reducing the pellet count by 1/4 of 1% in a 1 oz load and I doubt that ANYBODY ever notices that. And as far as most humans are concerned, if they can't perceive it, it doesn't exist.

    Keller
     
  19. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    BigM:

    If my post is part of what you're referring to as a b!tch slap, it absolutely wasn't intended to be. I'm not even sure I disagree with your original point. My only intent was to elaborate on your comment a bit and point out that some folks take exception to the theory.

    Perceived recoil is one of many opinion issues related to reloading and shooting. What all those issues have in common is the inability to objectively measure and quantify results. By its very definition "perceived recoil" will mean different things to different people. It may not even be consistent from one day to another with same person.

    My apologies if you perceived my first post as anything else.

    sincerely,

    sissy
     
  20. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Energy in = energy out! Energy pushing an object forward is going to push the supporting object backward. The rate at which the forward object accelerates is going to affect the rate at which it pushes the supporting object backwards, resulting in a jab, or a push in this case. Pressures may be the same by the time the shot is to the end of the barrel. It is more a matter of how fast that pressure builds. Again, energy in = energy out. In this case it is the rate at which the energy is applied. Even though time wise, we are talking milliseconds, between both of the final results, I believe we feel the difference, because our brains are capable of processing information much faster than that. Just as pushing the same weight slower, as in FPS reduces recoil. Same as pushing lesser weight at a higher speed would match the recoil, of a higher weight pushing it slower. What has less perceived recoil, the same shotgun shooting a 1oz. load going 1250 fps., or a shell producing 1145 fps. with 1 1/8oz.? Pressures may be close to the same, but I bet you would feel the recoil more with the 1oz. load. Then again if you push a 1oz. load the same speed as a 1 1/8oz., you will feel a lighter perceived recoil on the 1oz. load, but the pressures will be quite different. All of these scenarios would be based on the same powder for each, of different amounts. Slower burning powders I believe make a difference in the acceleration, and perceived recoil.

    Here is another question. Why is it that the reason porting in barrels, is to stop muzzle jump by releasing pressure upward, but that pressure of a avg. 9000 psi. coming out of the muzzle in jet like propulsion, is rarely, or ever considered in the recoil equation? If I remember correctly, Neil Winston was one of the people who had the theory, or perception of two different recoils from one shot. This may be the reasoning. In this case would pressure amounts not make some difference? Watch the above video. At the eight second mark, and the double video, you can really see the recoil process of the top video.

    Hold on, let me get some popcorn and a beverage.
     
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