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Reloading may require a license

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by chipped1, Apr 22, 2009.

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  1. chipped1

    chipped1 TS Member

    Oct 26, 2006
    "Virtually everyone who supports the 2nd Amendment or has an interest in firearms has heard the numerous recent reports of ammunition shortages. The shortages have extended to reloading supplies that many folks rely on to keep their shooting costs down or to assemble exotic or hard to find ammunition. Many shooters have considered reloading their own ammo as insurance against limited supplies should legislation be enacted that would make ammo more scarce or dramatically more expensive," the blogger continued.

    "Those thoughts may be in vain if the current administration is successful in getting the 'INTER-AMERICAN CONVENTION AGAINST THE ILLICIT MANUFACTURING OF AND TRAFFICKING IN FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, EXPLOSIVES, AND OTHER RELATED MATERIALS' treaty passed."

    The treaty defines "illicit manufacturing" as "the manufacture or assembly of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials."

    It then gives authority for that activity only with "a license from a competent governmental authority of the State Party where the manufacture or assembly takes place."

    During the "One's" visit to Mexico he threw his support behind requiring those that reload be licensed by the state. Check out Drudge Report for the full story. I couldn't capture the author's name without pulling in the ads.

    "The section … clearly identifies ammo reloaders that are not licensed by the government as 'Illicit Manufacturers' of ammunition. Now that we have reloaders properly labeled, lets move down to Article IV to see what we should do with them," the commentary said.

    He then quotes Article IV, which states, "State Parties that have not yet done so shall adopt the necessary legislative or other measures to establish as criminal offenses under their domestic law the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials."

    "This is pretty straightforward. If you reload ammunition without a license after the treaty is signed you will be a criminal," Lawson wrote.

    The National Rifle Association said the treaty "does include language suggesting that it is not intended to restrict 'lawful ownership and use' of firearms. Despite those words, the NRA knows that anti-gun advocates will still try to use this treaty to attack gun ownership in the U.S."
  2. tom-n8ies

    tom-n8ies Member

    Mar 23, 2006
    From: Gun Owners of America <Gun_Owners_of_America@capwiz.mailmanager.net>
    Subject: Obama Pushing Treaty To Ban Reloading
    Date: Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 4:56 PM

    -- Even BB guns could be on the chopping block

    Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
    8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
    Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408

    Tuesday, April 21, 2009

    Remember CANDIDATE Barack Obama? The guy who "wasn't going to take away
    our guns"?

    Well, guess what?

    Less than 100 days into his administration, he's never met a gun he
    didn't hate.

    A week ago, Obama went to Mexico, whined about the United States, and
    bemoaned (before the whole world) the fact that he didn't have the
    political power to take away our semi-automatics. Nevertheless, that
    didn't keep him from pushing additional restrictions on American gun

    It's called the Inter-American Convention Against Illicit Manufacturing
    of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, and Other
    Related Materials. To be sure, this imponderable title masks a really
    nasty piece of work.

    First of all, when the treaty purports to ban the "illicit" manufacture
    of firearms, what does that mean?

    1. "Illicit manufacturing" of firearms is defined as "assembly of
    firearms [or] ammunition... without a license...."

    Hence, reloading ammunition -- or putting together a lawful firearm from
    a kit -- is clearly "illicit manufacturing."

    Modifying a firearm in any way would surely be "illicit manufacturing."
    And, while it would be a stretch, assembling a firearm after cleaning it
    could, in any plain reading of the words, come within the screwy
    definition of "illicit manufacturing."

    2. "Firearm" has a similarly questionable definition.

    "[A]ny other weapon" is a "firearm," according to the treaty -- and the
    term "weapon" is nowhere defined.

    So, is a BB gun a "firearm"? Probably.

    A toy gun? Possibly.

    A pistol grip or firing pin? Probably. And who knows what else.

    If these provisions (and others) become the law of the land, the Obama
    administration could have a heyday in enforcing them. Consider some of
    the other provisions in the treaty:

    * Banning Reloading. In Article IV of the treaty, countries commit to
    adopting "necessary legislative or other measures" to criminalize
    illicit manufacturing and trafficking in firearms.

    Remember that "illicit manufacturing" includes reloading and modifying
    or assembling a firearm in any way. This would mean that the Obama
    administration could promulgate regulations banning reloading on the
    basis of this treaty -- just as it is currently circumventing Congress
    to write legislation taxing greenhouse gases.

    * Banning Gun Clubs. Article IV goes on to state that the criminalized
    acts should include "association or conspiracy" in connection with said
    offenses -- which is arguably a term broad enough to allow, by
    regulation, the criminalization of entire pro-gun organizations or gun
    clubs, based on the facilities which they provide their membership.

    * Extraditing US Gun Dealers. Article V requires each party to "adopt
    such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the
    offenses it has established in accordance with this Convention" under a
    variety of circumstances.

    We know that Mexico is blaming U.S. gun dealers for the fact that its
    streets are flowing with blood. And we know it is possible for Mexico
    to define offenses "committed in its territory" in a very broad way.
    And we know that we have an extradition obligation under Article XIX of
    the proposed treaty. So we know that Mexico could try to use the treaty
    to demand to extradition of American gun dealers.

    Under Article XXIX, if Mexico demands the extradition of a lawful
    American gun dealer, the U.S. would be required to resolve the dispute
    through "other means of peaceful settlement."

    Does anyone want to risk twenty years in a sweltering Mexican jail on
    the proposition that the Obama administration would apply this provision
    in a pro-gun manner?

    * Microstamping. Article VI requires "appropriate markings" on
    firearms. And, it is not inconceivable that this provision could be
    used to require microstamping of firearms and/or ammunition -- a
    requirement which is clearly intended to impose specifications which are
    not technologically possible or which are possible only at a
    prohibitively expensive cost.

    * Gun Registration. Article XI requires the maintenance of any records,
    for a "reasonable time," that the government determines to be necessary
    to trace firearms. This provision would almost certainly repeal
    portions of McClure-Volkmer and could arguably be used to require a
    national registry or database.

    ACTION: Write your Senators and urge them to oppose the Inter-American
    Convention Against Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms,
    Ammunition, Explosives, and Other Related Materials.

    Please use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at
    http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators the
    pre-written e-mail message below.

    ----- Pre-written letter -----

    Dear Senator:

    I am urging you, in the strongest terms, to oppose the Inter-American
    Convention Against Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms,
    Ammunition, Explosives, and Other Related Materials.

    This anti-gun treaty was written by international bureaucrats who are
    either stupid or virulently anti-gun -- or both.

    This treaty could very well ban the ability to reload ammunition, to put
    new stocks on rifles lawfully owned by American citizens, and, possibly,
    even ban BB guns!

    There are too many problems with this treaty to mention them all in this
    letter. The rest can be read on the website of Gun Owners of America

    Please do not tell me the treaty has not yet been abused in this way by
    the bevy of Third World countries which have signed it. We do not
    expect the real ramifications of the treaty to become clear until the
    big prize -- the U.S. -- has stepped into the trap.

    For all of these reasons, I must insist that you oppose ratification of
    the treaty.



    What's Your Current GOA Status?

    Obviously, we now face years of invigorated attacks on our gun rights.
    Shutting down gun shows, prohibitions on specific calibers, another
    semi-auto ban, and the anti-gun extremists' Holy Grail of mandatory
    federal licensing and registration of all gun owners -- these are just
    some of the horrors that we already know we'll have to defeat head-on.
    Not to mention this treaty nonsense. Meanwhile, we'll take every
    opportunity to go on offense and advance the Second Amendment.

    It can't be done without every single voice being counted. That's why
    we are asking you to consider making the commitment of becoming a Gun
    Owners of America Life Member. By doing so, you put the politicians on
    notice that neither you nor GOA is going away -- that no matter who's in
    the White House, there is always going to be a solid wall of resistance.

    Now is a perfect time to become a Life Member. And if you aren't a GOA
    member at all, isn't it time you became one?

    Please go to http://gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm to upgrade your
    participation in GOA.

  3. trapshootingfran

    trapshootingfran TS Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    I also read this morning that if this is to become law, that our Gun Clubs will against the law along with reloading. Anything that has to do with guns will be illisit, even our thoughts.
    keep fighten Fran
  4. tad houston

    tad houston TS Member

    Dec 21, 2006
    Looks like it would also apply to gunsmiths or anyone that "modifies" guns. Adjustable comb? Butt Plate? Hit the link for more info.
  5. Lead Man

    Lead Man TS Member

    Apr 29, 2008
    Technically if you do any work on a firearm you must be licensed now. Working on a recoil pad is illegal as long as the receiver is attached. All repairs with a serial numbered part requires an FFL if done for others. That being said the reloading situation is a horse of a different color.

    Stand up and be counted call your representatives let them know what you think. Don't just sit here and complain.
  6. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2007
    If ya read it as it is written, it states "-----the manufacturing of AND trafficking in -------". So, it seems that ya have to be doing both to be illegal, the way it is written. What ya think?

    Gne J
  7. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

    Dec 27, 2007
    As far back as the late sixties and early seventies we had to have a "manufacturer's" license to make reloads for others. If memory serves, we had a firearms dealer's license and a license to manufacture ammunition along with attendant tax stamps and so on.
  8. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

    Aug 12, 2007
    Who was the football player who is supposed to be the Pres of the American shooting and Hunting Anti Gun Org?
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