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Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by LMac, Aug 16, 2008.

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  1. LMac

    LMac TS Member

    Jul 25, 2006
    Goose2, don't know what components your useing, but I follow the recipe's for Federal hulls. I think Estates are made by Federal. They have the paper base wad. I use Alliant powder and their recipe's, and they work great.
  2. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

    Mar 14, 2006
    Do a search for Federal and Estate hulls on this site. There have been MANY recent threads with a lot of detail. The search feature can be accessed a few inches from the top of the main "Discussion" page. It says "SEARCH" and all you need to do is click the link and then enter your search terms in the field on the next page that appears. Make sure to select the maximum number of thread results. Currently 250. There have been many posts from knowledgeable people about the subject. I will reiterate my thoughts after these links.

    Here a start:





    In a pinch, you can use data for "Gold Medal" hulls. It's not exact, but close. Be careful to stay away from loads producing high pressures. (over 9500 PSI)

    I use a few loads that work well:

    1oz shot, Federal 12S0 wad or clone, Federal 209A primer, 18.3 grains Red Dot or Promo for about 1200 fps. This load was developed for my S.O., who likes a low recoil load. She will refuse to shoot without them.

    Same load except 18.2 grains of Clays or Clay Dot powder at the same velocity with 1oz of shot.

    1 1/8 oz of shot, 18.7 grains of Promo or Red Dot, Federal 12S3 Wad or clone, Federal 209A primer at about 1200 fps. This load works well for handicaps.

    1 1/8 oz of shot, Federal 12S3 Wad or clone, Federal 209A primer, 23.5 grains of Universal Clays at about 1235 fps. 23.0 - 23.5 grains of Unique will work as well.

    Downrange makes a great clone of the Federal 12S3 wad. Their supposed replacement for the 12S0 isn't up to snuff. They claim that one of their XXL series will work. They did not work as expected when I tried them in these loads.

    I have discussed some Green Dot loads in other threads, so look there.

    You can substitute the RIO G-600 primer in the above loads. The RIO primer is oversized, so you cannot use a standard primer in any subsequent loading. The paper base wads will cause gas leakage around the primers after one or two firings. That is when I use the Rio primer, on the second loading. It is slightly larger and will seal the base for another firing. In any event, I DO NOT LOAD THESE MORE THAN TWO TIMES and then toss them. I don't like the gas cuts in the breech face that results from primer leakage. You can see this as it looks like a little black soot around the primer, when looking at the case head. You may also experience tube separations where the tube pulls free from the case head. It is a VERY infrequent event, but it can happen, so look out for it. You can usually just remove the tube from the chamber quite easily, even in an auto. It would be difficult to chamber another round if this were to occur. It has stopped an auto when it was experienced, since the case head failed to eject and jammed the action until it was removed. The paper base wads are also adversely affected by moisture. If they ever get wet, don't use them. You MUST inspect the inside of each hull with a good light before loading. A base wad that has been soaked will appear to have swelled up and will have "grown" a bit over the primer hole. You'll recognize it when you see it.

    The Federal wads are very good patterning wads and I use them for handicaps quite often when using a straight walled hull. They work especially well at higher velocities.

    I do not recommend using a wad intended for a tapered hull. I have experienced poor consistency, powder migration, and terrible cold weather performance when doing so. In light of that, I highly recommend using a wad intended for straight walled hulls. Some people will claim they get good results with wads intended for tapered hulls. I did not always get good results, so your results may vary.

    Alliant and Hodgdon have had some data on their sites for these hulls. They are mostly field loads, so they might be too stiff for targets. They might be listed under Federal Hulls with the term "rolled paper base wad" or something to that effect. The Federal "Top Gun", WalMart Specials, and Estates of current manufacture are basically the same hull. Estates used to have a plastic base wad some years ago prior to Federal/ATK taking them over. There are still some of these around and they can usually be loaded with the same data I have listed.
  3. FN in MT

    FN in MT TS Member

    Oct 25, 2007
    I loaded a mess of them this Spring with 1 oz of 8's or 9's, the Fed 12SO wad or it's clone, Fio 616 or WW209, and 18.5 CLAYS. Used them for skeet and trap singles. I shoot once fired , clean pickups ONCE then move on. I can't see loading them a 2nd time with the stories of the base wads seperating and sticking in barrels. And I check my barrels after each shot.

    One can find Estates by the thousands at most any club. Nice hull for FREE.

    FN in MT
  4. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

    Jan 29, 1998

    Refer to the Federal handloading shotshell spec's for whatever powder you plan to use.

    I have reloaded thousands of Estate's and Top Guns using the same components and have never had a mishap/malfunction and/or problem.

    My main 2 recipes (which covers my trapshooting needs):

    1 oz. (7-1/2 or 8 shot) - 17 grs. of 700X powder, Federal 209A primer and 12SO wad. 1200 fps with very light felt recoil. I use this load for singles and both shots of doubles.

    1-1/8 oz. (7-1/2 or 8 shot) - 19.5 grs. of 700X powder, Federal 209A primer and 12S3 wad. 1235 + fps. I use this for handicap (27 yds).

    Have fun...

    Curt - Delaware
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