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Reloading, Double Charges, Blowups & 320090T

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by goatskin, Oct 9, 2009.

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  1. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    On another thread, 320090T posted something that clarified what has been a nebulous, nagging unformed thought about (especially CG's) catastrophic failures.

    <blockquote>320090T: <i>I know for a fact that 34 grains of Bullseye will not blow up a shotgun, not a good one anyway. It will hurt like heck but not blow anything up. </i></blockquote>

    Yeah, me, too. I have shot MY own double-charged loads (at least two times, and maybe more - I've reloaded for a long time): one with Bullseye, like his, and one with 700X. The doubled Bullseye hurt; the doubled 700X broke an already cracked stock AND hurt.

    One was in an MT-6, the other was in an 1895 Boss SxS (and damascus, at that).

    Neither gun's chamber blew; likewise, locking was unaffected and no squadmates were mutilated.

    I don't know of very many reloaders who have NOT double-charged and shot it, too, and without issue, save some mighty red faces and a newfound dedication to reloading without the teevee being on.

    As I recall the threads on the P- and K- guns blowing, they were old guns with a lot of rounds through them, so it is easy(ier) to see a possible problem of prior abuse/cold working/fatigue with them. The two? three? CG that blew were new guns, original owner, low mileage and shot only on Sunday when it was sunshiny.

    This is not a CG dig, but, many (if not MOST of us) here have shot a load WE double charged and still have life, limb and a working gun.

    Has anybody had the same curious thoughts abt why & why not?


    Bob
     
  2. Jim101

    Jim101 Active Member

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    I can say for sure I've never loaded and fired a double charged round, Be it shotgun, Pistol, Or rifle.

    Of course I've only been loading ammo since 1975.






    Jimmy
     
  3. fishguts

    fishguts Member

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    I started reloading in 1964, I have NEVER had a double charge.

    Wayne Meyers
     
  4. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Member

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    This is probably not relevant but it's interesting. In the late 60's the guys I worked with were making and shooting flintlocks. We thought muzzle loading shotguns would be fun. So..... we bought a few. I did this at least six times: loaded them up with double powder (I think 2F) a card wad then double shot (2.5 oz) and a card wad over the shot. Never had any problems. In fact the first ten clay targets I ever shot were shot at and broke with a 16 ga SxS muzzle loader. It was fun but to slow to load. So... I bought a M12 trap.
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I have, and I don't know how, put a double charge of powder in shells. When I seated the wad, it took more pressure. Then when I put in the shot, it filled the hull to the very top and I could not crimp the hull. I put these into my mistake pile and never into a shotgun. In fact, if I did crimp them, they would be so bulged that I don't think they would chamber.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    At some point in time you might want to consider powder detonation as the culprit. If the powder burns the gun can handle the pressure. If the powder detonates the gun can not handle the pressure plus the ensuing shock wave. HMB
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    My buddy used a MEC 650 to (extra) charge a load of Red-Dot powder and set it aside to take apart later. He had over 500 rounds loaded in 5 gal buckets that night. Next day, his wife was cleaning up and thoughtfully boxed all his loaded shells for him? Including the one with the extra powder in it!! It wasn't a true double charge, he wouldn't have been able to crimp it with the components used. He found the load a couple weekends later, his model 12 pushed him backwards a few steps and Jeff was a big guy, bout 230 or so. No damage to the model 12 though but ol Jeff had a sore shoulder for a while!

    That happened when a piece of shot prevented the bar from returning all the way to the shot side dropping a good portion of the powder, not all of it. The return spring couldn't pull the bar past the lodged piece of shot so another handle pull gathers another full load of powder! It definitely will get your attention if you shoot such a load!

    I stop when I make a boo-boo or feel I did when loading and cut the load apart right then and there! So far, I haven't found extra powder but I've found cocked wad bases. I've reloaded shotshells since the early 60s too FWTW.

    Hap
     
  8. Remstar311

    Remstar311 Member

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    I have never had a double charged load. I have used only a mec jr. for shotgun and I still haven't figured out how to do it.
     
  9. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I'm with Remstar, been using a mec jr. for over 20 years. Never had a double powder or shot charge. I've forgot wads, (concave crimp), forgot primers, (powder mess). If you have good crimps, then all of a sudden don't, its time to stop and figure out whats going on. Wayne
     
  10. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    I have on my workbench a MT-6 barrel.. 40 grains of Bullseye/ 1/1/8oz shot Remington hull..Winchester wad.. Winchester primer.. swollen chamber.. further down.. a small barrel ring??? swollen receiver walls.. and it all stayed together.. Gun ruined.. shooter OK.. Done on purpose.. I'll bring it to Sparta next year.. if anyone wants to see.. THIS IS NOT LOADING DATA>>DO NOT USE>> COPY>>OR REPRINT
     
  11. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Good idea, Richard.

    Mine were a good while ago, and both of mine were pure, unadulterated inattention. One was on a MEC 650, the other was on a MEC Grabber.

    I had a problem with the shot drop: one was a folded wad, the other I had not filled the shot bottle and ran out dropping a few layers, only.

    I cleared the shot issues and pulled the handle again. I was using long, soft wads and didn't pay attention to more pressure seating the wad or the spare primer rattling around. The crimps were fine.

    When I shot both of them, I knew EXACTLY what happened, when and why.


    Bob
     
  12. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    My double charge did not come from my loader. I was using a powder trickler and did a shell twice, my mistake, I was stupid but survived as did my gun. Bullseye is a compact powder and a double will fit quite nicely with no added effort to crimp. I pay much more attention now, be careful!
     
  13. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    I have had a number of double charges - but all were caught at the machine.

    I have been "lucky" and never had one get past me so far.

    To stay "lucky" I do not have a TV or radio on when I reload. I ignore the girlfriend. No alcohol.

    On three of my metallic presses I have added Powder Check dies because a pistol case will easily hold a double charge of the target loads I use.

    Don Verna
     
  14. gold40

    gold40 Member

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    I somehow caused a heavy overload using a 12 ga. MEC GRABBER and Hodgdon CLAYS. I think it was a double charge, but there is no way to prove it.

    Firing this heavy load strained my shotgun, but did not "BLOW-UP." Report sound and recoil were excessive. The buttstock cracked in one spot. The shell case head was distorted, and had to be driven out. I don't know how it happened, as it seems impossible. Rather Scary!!!

    I'm still safely using the shotgun, although it doesn't lock up as tightly as it did.

    gold40
     
  15. redhawk44

    redhawk44 Member

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    >>I don't know of very many reloaders who have NOT double-charged and shot it, too, and without issue, save some mighty red faces and a newfound dedication to reloading without the teevee being on. <<

    HUH??? I have loading ammunition since 1955, rifle, handgun and shotgun and even a little muzzle loader and have never double charged a cartridge of any kind. This would be a minimum of 250,000 rounds.
     
  16. brent375hh

    brent375hh TS Member

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    I intentially double charged one of my trap loads today. I have my machine set up with almost no wad pressure. The shot level was all the way to the top and it would not crimp shut, shot ran all over my 366.

    I was happy to see that result.
     
  17. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

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    I am only referring to shotshell loading and not rifle, handgun etc. I have been loading shot shells for approximately 45 years. I cannot comprehend how a person fails to notice a double charge of powder; when reloading. It would seem that the reloader would not function in a normal fashion when this happens, the shell casing would have a noticeable cosmetic flaw, i.e. a kink in the sidewall, a poor crimp, etc. JMHO. Ed
     
  18. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

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    I feel sure that it is likely that some times that the powder will bridge the drop tube and not drop untill the next shell. Have you ever heard a near squib load, and wonder what the next shot was going to sound like? Nearly all things are possible and every time I hear a weak load i always wonder.

    Bob
     
  19. redhawk44

    redhawk44 Member

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    I will admit that powder bridging in the drop tube can cause an overload, but, as was noted earlier, there are going to be 2 shells come out of the process with very obvious clues that something is drastically wrong. Over the years, I have set aside perhaps 50 shells that didn't look right and disassemled them to find out why. That is only being cautious and anyone who is not that cautious should find another less dangerous hobby....golf perhaps?
     
  20. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    I have loaded a double charge of 700X on three different occasions. The first two times I shot the loads in my 1100 not knowing about it of course. I weighed all of my previous loaded shells (several flats) and cut up the outliers finding no more double charged loads. I then began loading again with my older 650 MEC. I found out that when I cycled the loader. The shot would drop on the down stroke, pick up the powder on the same down stroke, and when I returned the handle to the up position, the charge bar would hang up and not return to the correct position for a second or two and usually when I moved the base plate to prepare to load the next shell. That is when the charge bar would let go and drop the powder in the new hull. All you have to do is cycle the handle again and you drop shot on the down stroke and powder when the charge bar returns. You have a perfectly double charged load. As far as crimping is concerned, the crimp looked like heck, but it holds shot and will chamber perfectly so unless you catch it during boxing you would be likely not to catch it during a shoot when you are focusing on shooting and not shells. What happens is that the wad column is collapsed. I made a new spring bracket and went to the NAPA store and bought an appropriate spring and added another spring to aid the return of the charge bar. I have had no more double charges. It can and does happen so beware.
     
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