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Release Flinch

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Push, Aug 2, 2012.

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  1. Push

    Push TS Member

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    I shoot a release trigger and have for several years – the problem I have been having for a number of months is that as I reach the bird (at times) I find it difficult to release the trigger smoothly. It’s like a flinch in reverse. I’ve been told that it’s not a flinch but rather a spasm. Any suggestions as to eliminate this problem?
     
  2. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    Couple of things to look at; your trigger finger is through the trigger too far,trigger should rest in middle of the first finger pad. Other item needs a good trigger scale to check your set and release points, both should be consistent on set and release,no variance allowed. If there is any you need a reputable trigger smith to tune it up.One last thing is sometimes we try to be too precise and try to glance down to check our barrel and now you are no longer looking at the bird so your mind can't shoot what it isn't looking at.hope something helps
     
  3. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    You can flinch with a release, and it's the same kind of flinch you get with a pull trigger. Sometimes you just have to live with it. You've got two allowable
    failure to fire in a sub-event. Take advantage of them, and if you flinch have the presence of mind not to release the trigger.
     
  4. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    Hold tight, I mean tight to the grip and pull the gun into your shoulder very, very firmly. If anyone can pull your gun out of your hands with their two hands, you're not holding it tight enough.

    I Went through the same ordeal as you. I attended a Kiner clinic, Phil reintroduced me to the etiquette of holding and pointing a shotgun, thank you Phil..... A combination of aging, recoil reducers had laziness lulled me into loosening my grip and I had stopped grabbing hold of my gun and making it one with me developing a world class flinch along the way.

    When I asked Phil how tight he put out his hand for a handshake and I gave him mine he squeezed mine very firmly to the point, I said that's a death grip. Phil's response, it may be now, but it won't after you make it part of your program. We also locked fingers pulling my arm towards himself it took quite a bit of strength to resist being pulled into him, this is how firmly the gun should be in your shoulder.

    Holding tight takes your arms out out of the equation and puts your waist and legs back in as they should be. A tight grip also helps keep your head down, the whole process creates a smooth move to the target and keeps the flow going.

    I had sore muscles in my hands and back which subsided in a few weeks so expect this side effect. The outcome is I no longer flinch even with a pull trigger as long as I hold tight, if not hello flinch.

    Like everything, what works for may not for another, my willingness to invest the time and effort paid off for me, but may not for you, give it a try it may be the help you're looking for.


    Surfer
     
  5. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Contrary to popular belief, at least as many flinches are visually induced as are recoil induced. If your brain isn't sure the sight picture is correct for the target to break, it will resist issuing the "fire" command to your finger or refuse to issue it at all. Try lowering your gun hold point in order to give your brain more time to look at the target.

    I've used releases for 18 years and have flinched repeatedly perhaps a half-dozen times. After the second flinch on the same trap, I have lowered my gun hold point and the flinching always stopped.

    Ed
     
  6. wingmaster78

    wingmaster78 Active Member

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    A flinch is a flinch. Spasm is a word conjured up by release trigger users when they switched from pull to release, believing the bull$hit that a release will cure a flinch. Obviously, it doesn't.
     
  7. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to take issue with what you wrote but releases do work wonders for most shooters who flinch. Could they be so popular if they didn't? As a flincher who stopped as soon as he went to a release, I can tell you first-hand that they are effective.

    Now, as I said above, if your brain finds another reason not to let you fire the gun, you will flinch with a release. But that's happened to me very few times and every time, allowing my brain more "looking" time was the answer.

    Ed
     
  8. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    wingmaster78, you're a man who knows not of what he speaks!!
     
  9. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    I suggest you look for a mechanical problem. i.e. a trigger changing set and or release points. Perhaps even oil soaking into the wood and expanding it an impeding the hook. Get a trigger pull gauge and check out your trigger. The problem sounds mechanical to me.

    And I own and sell as many used release triggers as anyone I know. they vary and they change. When they do, you can begin to have glitches.
     
  10. mcneeley5

    mcneeley5 Member

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    Kinda related....my Hitachi air nail gun has a VERY hard trigger, my boys laugh thier butts off every time I go to flinching while trying to nail some studs! The Ram shooter is even worse for me.
     
  11. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    Different strokes for different folks.

    One of the things that will cause me to flinch is holding to tight with my left arm. (Fore end arm)

    Don't know why, but it does.

    I have to just lay it in my hand and not grip to tight. If I don't, it will end up being a fore arm flinch.

    Hauxfan!
     
  12. wingmaster78

    wingmaster78 Active Member

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    If you guys wopuld really read and listen to what you are writing, maybe you would make sense.

    Now, when a flinch developes with a release trigger it is not a flinch but a "SPASM". Maybe it's a "MECHANICAL PROBLLEM". " IF I HOLD THE FORE_END OF MY GUN TOO TIGHT" I will flinch.

    Listen to yourselves.
     
  13. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    I have to do the same as Hauxfan otherwise I'll occasionally squeeze the fore-end and jerk down on the fore-end, to me that's a flinch of some sort. Ross Puls
     
  14. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Wing,

    What are your credentials in assessing release triggers and flinches?? Do you use one? Have you used one? Do you flinch? Have you flinched?

    I had devolved a pretty serious flinch. After my switch to a release trigger my flinch is gone. So it doesn't work??
     
  15. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Ross, I do the same thing when I flinch - jerk the forend down; usually down and left. But I've found I do that because my brain wants a better look at the target and needs the gun out of the way in order to do that.

    Wing, I'm also challenging you. How much time have you spent studying your mechanics and their faults? How many trapshooting clinics have you taken? Finally, are you legitimately an experienced good shooter who knows what he's taking about or just one of the many who think they do but can't cite evidence to support the theory?

    Answer those questions before you post any more opinions, please.

    Ed
     
  16. warren

    warren Member

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    I discovered the what I thought was a flinch was my subconscious trying recover from "crossfiring" my left eye takes over and I try to recover just as I pull the trigger or release it in your case. I'm not sure this is your problem but it's worth thinking about.

    warren
     
  17. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

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    wingmaster,

    I know quite a few of the guys above writing about release flinches and they know what they're talking about, so don't discredit them. There are two distinctly different types of flinches in shooting. The one discussed here is a timing flinch (the gun has to go off by a certain point or the flinch ensues). This is where we need a better look at the target or bad things happen.

    As a release trigger user, I too experience an occasional, slight flinch on targets going left from Post 1. As Ed suggests, when I lower my gun hold point, it goes away. I've also found that moving my gun hold point in toward the center of the house works also. This is because I'm getting a better look at the target, and the visual "panic" problem goes away.

    Some day you might need the aid of a release trigger to preserve your shot-gunning fix, so read, LISTEN, and learn.

    Jon Reitz
     
  18. wingmaster78

    wingmaster78 Active Member

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    I am a certified NRA/USA shotgun coach. I have been involved with youth shooters for 6 years.

    I have not shot a release trigger. I do not think that going to a release trigger is the only way to cure a flinch.

    I have read and heard that the only way to cure a flinch is to switch to a release trigger. No one previously admitted that they could have a flinch after switching.

    When a target is called, the eyes have to pick up the target and send a signal to the brain that the target is spotted. The brain then registers the target and sends the signal to the correct muscle group to move the gun to the target and then to pull the trigger.
     
  19. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Right on! But what happens when the brain doesn't "register" the target? If you're an instructor with any personal shooting experience, you know the answer to that question.

    By the way, you never told us about your shooting experience. No offense, but talking the talk (instructing) is a lot different than walking the walk (having actually competed yourself). I press this point because I find it hard to believe that anyone with a lot of TRAPshooting experience would be saying some of the things you have said.

    Yes, there are other ways of curing a flinch besides a release trigger. But once your brain reaches the point where it just will not send that signal that causes the finger to PULL the trigger, you have to find a mechanism that it will support - like RELEASING the trigger. I know you're probably thinking that such a brain-fooling method can't be effective long-term but it is. Eighteen years and counting!

    I'll tell you something else you probably won't buy into. I cannot pull a trigger on a mounted gun when shooting trap but I have absolutely no trouble pulling a trigger when doing anything else. I can shoot sporting clays (poorly), hunt, shoot a rifle or handgun and even pattern a shotgun with a pull trigger. And I never even think about setting the trigger while doing any of those things.

    The mind is a wonderful thing...

    Ed
     
  20. wingmaster78

    wingmaster78 Active Member

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    If you flinch with a pull trigger, then why does a release trigger fix a flinch?

    When as I stated previously the sequence of the eyees, brain and muscles in the process of pulling a trigger be any different in releasing a trigger?

    It absolutely makes no sense to me. I will shoot a release trigger as soon as I get a chance and maybe I will be enlightened.
     
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