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**** Relace 700X ******

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by kraiza, Aug 28, 2009.

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  1. kraiza

    kraiza Active Member

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    I haveing a hard time now finding 700X. What would be the next powder choice close to the same burn rate.
    Maybe Nitro 100?
     
  2. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Promo works well and costs a bit less. It's probably a little faster, but should work well for a variety of loads.
     
  3. WI Trapshooter

    WI Trapshooter TS Member

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    I switched from 700X to clays.
     
  4. 100straight

    100straight Member

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    I have about 12 pounds of 700X I would consider selling. What's it worth and where do you live?

    Thanks,

    Mark.
     
  5. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Not that anyone has any 700X to look at, but can anyone tell me the color of the ID flakes in the new 8 lb jugs?
     
  6. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    I would think that Alliant American Select or Hodgdon TiteGroup would be close.

    For 1 oz loads at 1200 f/s I like Hodgdon Clays.

    For 1 1/8 oz loads at 1200 f/s I like Hodgdon International.

    Jason
     
  7. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Per Lyman Shotshell Loading Handbook, Scot, Nitro 100 ranks 4th on burning rate chart, where as Hi-Skor 700 ranks 15th

    Here are 5 shotshell powders with faster burning rates than 700X and the 5 slower.

    Alliant Red Dot,
    Vihtavuori N3SL,
    Hodgdon Clays,
    Scot, Royal Scot D,
    Vihtavuori, N3SM,

    700X

    Winchester WST,
    Hodgdon International,
    Alliant Green Dot,
    IMR PB,
    Winchester WSL,
     
  8. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Rick Barker

    Burn Rate Charts really don't tell the whole story. Where a powder may fall on such and such chart has less to do with how the powder performs in actual loading situations. The composition of the powder and other characteristics can have a dramatic impact on how the powder performs and what pressures are developed when loaded. If you mash the link above, 700-X is right next to Green Dot on the chart. That does not mean they will give the same performance when loaded. It only says that whoever compiled the chart found that was where they fell when tested under a very narrow set of parameters. 700-X is a powder that is pretty consistent across a wide variety of loads. There are many listings for loads in the 1 1/8 1200 fps category. Looking for a replacement for 700-X would probably result in a cross between Red Dot/Promo and Green Dot or International Clays. If loading on the lighter side, Red Dot or Promo would be fine. If looking for heavier loads, then Green Dot or International Clays would be suitable. Promo is more economical and would give more bang for the buck. It's a decent powder and suitable for a wide range of Target Loads. It will work almost perfectly for 70% of my target loads. I use a slower powder for the handicaps (Green Dot, International Clays, Universal Clays, or Unique.) and a faster powder for the lighter payloads, like Clays. Clays will "hit the wall" sooner than most powders, so I stay well away from the top listed loads. Same for Clay Dot, but seemingly not quite as abruptly.

    The question was what could replace 700-X. The answer would depend on what payloads and velocities you would want to load. Promo or Red Dot would work for the loads on the lighter side and Green Dot for loads on the heavier side, usually with a little less pressure than 700-X in similar loadings with Green Dot. A study of the published data would probably be a good endeavor for the original poster, since he could see what the data shows for the components he has on hand AND what velocities and payloads he desires to load.
     
  9. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Red Dot
     
  10. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    My recommendations to replace 700X would be the same as Jason's (waverider)...I have tried many and find that Hodgdon Clays for 7/8 and 1 oz. and Clays International for 1 1/8 work best for me...clean burning and consistent. Best Regards, Ed
     
  11. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Quack Shot

    The original post did not state his objected loadings, he simply asked what was closest in burn rate and that is the information I provided him. If he had stated his objective load, we could have certainly narrowed that down.
     
  12. IMR 7625

    IMR 7625 Member

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    YELLOW FLAKE
     
  13. kraiza

    kraiza Active Member

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    Thank guys. I will try a pound of Nitro 100 and some Promo. And see what work for me.
    I use 17grain of 700x for my 1 1/8 loads # 8 shot
    and 16.5 of 700x for my 1oz loads with # 8 shot. Hull are STS/Nitro Rem..
     
  14. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    IMR 7625

    Yellow Dot maybe? Are you certain it's a flake? :)

    Rick Barker

    Here's a sample of a burn rate chart. It was developed with very narrow testing parameters and does not really reflect the way these powders would perform when actually loaded. If you were to look at another companies burn rate chart, it should be different, since they would usually use different parameters to develop it. A burn rate chart is almost useless to the average reloader for selecting powders and loads.

    1. R-1 (Norma)

    2. N310 (Vihtavuori)

    3. Titewad (Hodgdon)

    4. AS- 30N (ADI)

    5. Nitro 100 (Accurate)

    6. Bullseye (Alliant)

    7. Solo 1000 (Accurate)

    8. Red Diamond (Scot)

    9. AS (Vectan)

    10. Red Dot (Alliant)

    11. Promo (Alliant)

    12. Titegroup (Hodgdon)

    13. No. 2 (Accurate)

    14. American Select (Alliant)

    15. AA Plus (Winchester)

    16. Clays (Hodgdon)

    17. N320 (Vihtavuori)

    18. Competition (Ramshot)

    19. Royal D (Scot)

    20. WST (Winchester)

    21. AP- 50N (ADI)

    22. HP38 (Hodgdon)

    23. AO (Vectan)

    24. 452AA (Winchester)

    25. 453 (Scot)

    26. 231 (Winchester)

    27. Zip (Ramshot)

    28. 700X (IMR)

    29. Green Dot (Alliant)

    30. AS- 50N (ADI)

    31. International Clays (Hodgdon)

    32. 473AA (Winchester)

    33. HS-5 (Hodgdon)

    34. WSL (Winchester)

    35. Unique (Alliant)

    36. Universal Clays (Hodgdon

    More sound advice would be for the reloader to study the data for powders in the same "class" as 700-X and see which ones suit his needs the best. Red Dot or Promo would be suitable for the lighter payloads at lower velocities that would be suitable for 700-X. Green Dot would be fine for the heavier loads that 700-X would cover. Clays and International Clays would also work in the same fashion, but they appear to be scarce these days as well. Last time I purchased powder (a few days ago), there was plenty of Promo, Red Dot, and Green Dot available at a reasonable price. It appeared that his original post was intended to find a "replacement" for 700-X. Providing the "closest burn rate" would not always result in the desired results. Even though he did ask for that, it would be more beneficial to provide powders that could "replace" 700-X rather than something next to it on an arbitrary burn rate chart.

    kraiza

    I would probably suggest a different pair of powders. Solo 1000, Clays, Clay Dot or Promo/Red Dot for the lighter loads and Green Dot for the heavier ones. Green Dot does very well for 1200 fps 1 1/8 oz loads with many combinations of components. I think Nitro N100 is a bit "fast" and would produce significantly higher pressures than Solo 1000 or Promo with 1 oz loads. The Accurate manual Version 3.3 can be found at the link above, or by copying and pasting this url: http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/Acc%20Guide%20v3.3%20version.pdf

    In any event, 700-X is a moderately dense high energy powder. Green Dot, Red Dot, and Promo are a little less dense, so they will take up a little more room in the hull. You may or may not need to make any crimp adjustments. I usually don't when switching. If memory serves me, Solo 1000 is similar to 700-X in density, but a litle bulkier. Nitro N100 is a bit denser and will take up less room for a normal charge weight.

    If you've looked over the data for these powders and you are comfortable with the loads, then so be it. I usually suggest staying under 9000 PSI or so to be on the safe side. That gives a little headroom for error. I seldom load at or over 10,000 PSI in the 12 ga, since there is little need unless I'm building a special purpose load. In that event, I'd probably just bring a bigger gun with bigger loads.
     
  15. kraiza

    kraiza Active Member

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    Quack Shot thank you for the info. That waht I needed to know. Your right about the PSI. I like to be under 10,000 and 9,000 or under would be the best for me.
    I forgot about Solo 1000.
     
  16. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    When the entire grain range is essentially between 17.0 - 18.5 why all of the analysis/comparisons? I don't plan on using Green Dot loadings for Red Dot, but it seems to me if you have a scale and know how to use it, most of the mystery is solved.
     
  17. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Quack Shot

    Yes, you have the same burn rate chart I have and I used to give to "kraiza" Like said, I gave a short answer to a speicfic question. I don't take it upon myself to assume everyone who asks a specific question is not entitled to a specific answer. I do not assume that all reloaders are dummies.

    Sorry my post did not meet your criteria in answering a question.
     
  18. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Rick Barker

    Sorry you missed the point and have taken some sort of offense with my posts. Maybe you should read what I posted again. The burn rate charts are not always that useful. It's just a small slice of data based on very narrow testing parameters that are not well standardized between companies. Look at three burn rate charts and you will likely see three different sets of information. Looking at actual loading data might give a better idea of how a powder would perform under a wider set of variables.

    I provided a "different" burning rate chart than you did, in order to illustrate the point that they can, and DO, vary widely. Look at the charts again and it should be obvious that they "are-not-the-same." I have provided a link (above) to one published by Hodgdon. It is also "not-the-same." It seems like many powders shift position from chart to chart. Which one is correct? The short answer is that they ALL are, but under the narrow set of testing parameters that the different entities used for each one.

    The analogy is like having every gasoline station setting the standards for what they sell as a gallon of gasoline. It would make the comparison of Dollars per gallon useless, since a gallon would likely be a different quantity everywhere.
     
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when yellow added to 700 x