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Registered Trapshooting 2012

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dave Berlet, Sep 11, 2012.

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  1. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Active Member

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    I don't know how to put on a link, but for some interesting reading and statistics go to itrapshooter.com. Check out Brads Registered Trapshooting 2012 article.

    Dave Berlet
     
  2. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    This will be easier for people to read the article.

    This ought to be a good thread...it'll get some folk's skivvies all knotted up...LOL


    Curt
     
  3. Aulovel5

    Aulovel5 TS Member

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    Put up any shoot attendance it will all look like that. You can't just blame it on the location.
     
  4. running bear

    running bear Member

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    Another Brad post knocking the ATA because he doesn't shoot the Grand since it left Ohio and the Grand is not in Ohio anymore

    Buck
     
  5. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    Brad makes some really good points; however, he does not offer a solution.


    Brad we get it--you do not, and did not approve of moving to Sparta. WE GET IT!


    Now what?



    Guy Babin
     
  6. porky

    porky TS Member

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    The ATA is mindful of local/state and federal gov'ts. They breathe and eat, but they do not have life.
     
  7. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Active Member

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    Another point that Mr. Dysinger could have mentioned in his itrapshooter post was that before the Illinois site was made official the ATA spent many thousands of the members money to have a professional study group to come in, evaluate where the general population center, and also where the shooter population center was located and to make recomendations as to where the ATA's home should be located. It was recommended that the new home should be no farther west than Indianapolis.

    In my opinion location does have a major input as to who goes to the Grand and who doesn't. It is not because it is located in Illinois, But it is simply the distance required to get there. Only a very small percentage of shooters will travel long distance to go shooting. For most folks the recreation dollars are limited and many would rather spend their rec money on something other than travel expenses.

    Dave Berlet
     
  8. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    running bear, I didn't shoot the last grand held in Ohio either, I quit competitive shooting after the 2003 season and haven't shot out of the state of Ohio since. I just played around locally and at a couple of the Cardinal Shoots each summer.

    As tournament director for the Ohio State Shoot I didn't have time to shoot the State Shoot and have not shot it for several years. In fact this year I did not shoot one ATA target. I've found it surprisingly easy to not shoot ATA trap anymore, and I can understand why so many long time shooters quit.

    The reason I wrote the article for itrapshooter was to show the remaining ATA members what was happening. I've been researching registered shooting numbers and these best explained why trap shooting is tanking.

    You sound like an Obama supporter blaming Bush for this economy we are in, I think what bothers you most is I predicted eight years ago what a move to Illinois, anywhere, not just Sparta would do to the grand.

    Guy Babin, I've offered solutions, or what I'd do, many times on here. With the current political set up in the ATA where states with few members get the same vote as states with many members the ATA EC has no need to listen.

    This year the EC just rotated it's current members and reinstated Wagner as Central Zone VP without a vote of the zone delegates. Unless the state delegates get a backbone nothing will improve registered shooting will just continue to wither away.

    A by product of all of this is that most State Trapshooting Associations revenue is tied at the umbilical cord to the ATA and registered shooting and as registered target numbers decline so does the states finances.

    A good case in point would be Michigan, in 1975 Michigan residents shot about 2.6 million registered targets, by 2006 that number had jumped to 3.3 million, but by last year it was just 2.1.



    Brad Dysinger
     
  9. N. J. BOB

    N. J. BOB Active Member

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    Plain and simple it's the Economy..................................1
    Plain and simple it's bickering among shooters.....................2
    Plain and simple it's the over emphases on scores rather than
    camaraderie........................................................3
     
  10. running bear

    running bear Member

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    Brad,

    Do you think the economy has anything to do with the decline and the aging population to do with the decline? I know people in Michigan that have cut back on shooting because the don't have the money and the older shooters can't shoot the amount of target they use to. Did you ask shooters why they are not shooting as much as they use to or just use numbers?

    No I am not an Obama supporter but what does that have to do with it?
     
  11. zzoom

    zzoom Member

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    N. J. Bob, you nailed it. Sure, the numbers continue to decline, but there will still be a Grand for many years to come. Been to Sparta the past 3 years, not to shoot but to "shop" and visit with friends I only get to see there. Do plan to shoot next year, but will attend either way. It is not all about the shooting....
     
  12. John Thompson

    John Thompson TS Member

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    Brad, Dave,

    We have shot GAH targets for $12.00 per 100 and shells for $3.00 a box. George Snell. and I reminised about shooting a $200 gun for a $2000. car. Dessies Motel was $18. a night. Gas @ .259 a gallon. Direct costs have affected shooting. Lack of disposable income has an impact. The logistics of Sparta and the lack of motel rooms definitly affects Grand attendance.

    A major impact is the mentality of the EC. I understand the Martin money has been lost. The 2 yard reductions are being considered again. This is arguable if any positive impact on shooting has occurred. A proposal for matching dollars for AIM programs is being delayed, how can you add $1. per 100 for all shooters in this economy. I see this AIM proposal as not much different than the addition of special classifications. A magic wand waving to attempt to get shooters.

    The EC seems to want an elitist membership, $480 to park an RV for a week, prices go up every year.

    We have lost the old 2 trap conservation clubs which were in every county in every state east of the Mississippi river. That was the result of urban sprawl and interrupters being made mandatory. These clubs were the base of the ATA.

    Next, line up the education system which has made guns and hunting a bad thing. What was Neil Winstons occupation?

    I need to stop complaining, I will continue to shoot but as retirement constrains income, I will not shoot the 10,000 a year as in my working years.
     
  13. 2labman

    2labman Member

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    If I'd known the difference between "antidote" and "anecdote", my friend Bobby Schneider would still be alive today.

    He got bit by a copperhead, I'm reading him funny stories out of Reader's Digest. His head's starting to swell, and I like "It ain't working." He goes "read faster!"

    Ron White
     
  14. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    We can use this thread to get things ...Whipped Up again, but as stated above it's all about money.

    Disposable income, for a lot of people, isn't what it used to be.

    I know lots of farmers shoot. The corn and soybean crop here in Ohio is largely a disaster.

    Many employers are waiting the results of the coming elections.

    The coming years may be tough ones, so get ready.



    Regards......Gerald
     
  15. Steve Bills

    Steve Bills Member

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    Brad:..Thank you for taking time to share all that information to all of us. Very interesting info. & gives a person much to think about what problems ATA is pushing though. I am not very satisfied w/ many of the ATA E.C.new rules the last 5 to 8 yrs. And in my opinion ATA is heading registered shootng down the wrong road. Steve
     
  16. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    I think the demise of the numbers of Trapshooters can be mostly attributed to some of the following:

    Single Mommy families

    Walt Disney's Bambi type films (huntings is bad, guns are worse than bad)

    Private hunting clubs, taking your kid bird hunting isn't easy or cheap any longer. Assuming one has a dad.

    Sporting Clays, ERGO: private clubs.

    Wacko's with guns, and most of societies dislike of everything shooting related.

    Cost associated with every aspect of trapshooting

    And what may seem strange but; Lack of or fear of gambling on oneself. When I started shooting Trap (1975) everyone gambled with each other all the time. Maybe the older guys (WWII) had more disposable income or they just had fun gambling. I don't know but, I sure did.

    I don't think how the way the ATA is run has much if any effect on the numbers of Trapshooters.

    And I'm sure there are others.......
     
  17. BBowen

    BBowen Member

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    Like Brad, I have been involved in ATA trapshooting for many years. I have owned and operated two businesses which derived income totally from the sport. It sickens me to see the sad state of affairs today. I attended the Grand in Vandalia for almost 30 years and we did about 25% of our yearly gross business at that one shoot. I used to say that it wasn't worthwhile to go to a shoot as a vendor unless there was going to be 100 squads or more. Now you can count the number of shoots that size on both hands.

    I have to take exception to those of you who continually blame the economy for the decline in registered shooting. Let's look at two cases in point: California and Texas. Ca. has about 37 million residents and only about 1300 registered shooters. Texas has 32 million residents and my guess is about 1200 or less registered shooters. (These numbers aren't exact as I don't belong to the ATA nor do I get the average book any longer.) That aside, can anyone say with a straight face that in these two states there are only a couple thousand people that can afford to shoot ATA targets?? Neither state can get 500 shooters at their state shoots. This represents total lack of marketing and leadership from the ATA!!! The incompetence is appalling.

    The ATA has had a terrible cold for a long time and Sparta is when it got pneumonia. In my opinion, there is only one solution--a new organization. I would make a substantial financial contribution to that effort. The ATA was organized many years ago in a way that would prevent changes that could damage the organization. Now, that is why it can't be saved.

    Bruce Bowen
     
  18. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    This is not the first time the ATA has been involved in a contentious issue; it will not be the last. Was the Grand always at your beloved Ohio, NO. Was there contention then when it moved there, YES.



    You experts stuck in the past continue to pour cold water on those of us who do not posses your cynicism--why can’t you get it? Your gripes may not be revelant to those of us who have joined in the last 10 years or so. Do not try to impart your experiences on us.


    Let it go... things change. If you cannot be positive I wish you'd just be quiet and not be a spoiler for us who don't harbor your cancerous cynicism.


    Let it be, or make it better.


    Respectfully,




    Guy Babin
     
  19. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    Guy Babin,

    I have no idea what year you started trap shooting, I don't care but I have seen more shooters than you could ever imagine start up, last three years or so and then quit.

    You blaming me being a cancerous cynic it like blaming a Doctor for telling you if you don't quit smoking your going to die. Dave, Bruce, Me all we are doing is warning what is happening. I use facts to back up what I know. You make statements, with no facts and pass them off as truths.

    The real cancer in the ATA is the leadership. I don't care that the ATA left Vandalia, I have the Cardinal Center to go. Any old time Ohio shooter will tell you that the Cardinal is a much better experience, but moving from Vandalia killed the grand's history and is killing the ATA.

    Facts have away of getting in the way of myth. Why don't you do some research and tell me why I'm wrong in my assumptions and you are right. Facts sway me not name calling or trying to make me change my opinions, you can't shame be into being quite.

    You can call me cynical, don't care. Call me negative, I'm positive you're wrong. Facts, give me facts to back up your opinions or are they hopes.

    I think most shooters that have an irrationally emotional tie to the ATA and Sparta miss the big picture and let HOPE dictate their views.


    Bruce, good to hear from you. The next big shoe to drop on the ATA and Sparta will be when the vendor building leases come up in year 10. I get to talk to a lot of vendors who look at what's happening the same way you are.

    The Cardinal Center Vendor buildings have that old time grand feeling. I don't know if you've been to the CC or not but it is very vendor friendly and we have lots of vendor support for our shoots their.

    Brad
     
  20. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Sorry Gary, our local casino sees increased revenue every month since it's opening. If you don't believe me just google up Sands Casino Bethlehem PA revenue. Surprise, people still like to gamble but only if they think they can see a return. That's a fact.

    The ATA policies discouraged gambling and as a result catered more to professional practice and trinket shooters. Those of us in gun club management know that practice ATA shoots never went anywhere. Get rid of money punches, cheap yardage, solve the problem of under-handicapped pros and there's a chance this thing might turn around!!
     
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