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Red Dot - Prom

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by jbmi, May 4, 2009.

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  1. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    I just bought a jug of Promo and was given the latest Alliant Reloaders Guide.
    As I paged through it looking for a good load I could not help notice that loads listed for Red Dot were identical to loads for Promo. Same primer, wad, hulls, and shot weight listed the same speed and psi's. AA's, Remington, Fiocchi, Federal, it made no difference, all the same.
    So here's my question. There are some loads listed for Red Dot that are not listed for Promo. Because every load listed for both were identical, can I assume the loads listed for Red Dot will work substituting Promo??
     
  2. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    NO! Call Alliant and ask first. Jake
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    If you do that the Earth could leave orbit and crash into the Moon. HMB
     
  4. Carol Lister

    Carol Lister TS Member

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    Above is the product page for Promo.

    The important thing to remember about Promo is that it burns like Red Dot but is does not drop like Red Dot. You absolutely MUST find the correct bushing size to drop the required weight for each and every jug of Promo you open; the bushing sizes may or may not (probably "may not"} be the same size as the ones you would use for Red Dot. In other words, the bushing size stated for Red Dot is NOT the bushing size you use for Promo. You must find the correct one for Promo to get the stated weight of Red Dot.

    Carol Lister
     
  5. Border Bandit

    Border Bandit Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the input Carol. It's new information for me, as well.

    Another consideration is VOLUME. In other words if it takes a different bushing to throw a given weight of either powder, then there might be a necessary change in the wad you select, as well.

    regards......mike
     
  6. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    Carol's spot on...but I'll add my two cents, too....

    Promo, more than any other powder I've ever loaded, VARIES FROM JUG TO JUG.

    In other words...check your drop weight EVERYTIME you open a new jug. That's probably good advice with ANY powder, before the loading nazi's get all over me...but with Promo its vital.

    I've often found my drops to vary by .5 grains between jugs - more than enough to get me to change the bushing to re-establish the load I want.

    Could be a real problem if you like to live at the hot end of the spectrum for loads, you could easily go over the max.
     
  7. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    The Reloading Books give the same grains for Red Dot and Promo. I've weighed my Promo through the 3 different MEC bushings I'll be using, so if it calls for 18 gr.s of Red Dot and my bushing throws 18 gr. of Promo there should not be a problem. I just find it strange that all loads are the same, yet the reloading police seem to have a problem.
    The Alliant Reloading Guide does not give a bushing size for Promo, I used the bushing size for Red Dot and weighted the Promo drop. Promo dropped just about 1/2 to 1 grain less then the Red Dot recommendation. I am loading the recommended Promo loads.
     
  8. 3357

    3357 Member

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    As stated above the density is different. When promo first became available alliant recomended finding the red dot load you wanted then dropping down (smaller) 2 bushings for the promo equivalant then weighing to verify before loading. They also stressed that density and thus powder drop would vary from lot to lot so it was imperitive that you begin anew with each lot.
     
  9. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    jbmi, you are never, ever going to see a bushing chart for Promo. Alliant is very clear on the subject of Promo. They blend end lots of OEM powders to achieve a Red Dot burn rate, and sell it for cheap. They do not state the composition of the powder, nor do they guarantee it will not change from lot to lot. What they do guarantee is that it will burn at Red Dot speed. So if you mind some of the advice given above and ALWAYS measure drops from a new lot, you are good to go.

    BTW, the reason you can use Red Dot data (but not bushing info) with Promo is that it_burns_at_Red_Dot_speeds.

    BTW2, it is denser than Red Dot, but not enough to necessitate a wad change.
     
  10. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    I weigh all my drops from new jugs of powder what ever they are, Promo is no exception.
    zzt, thanks for that info. Promo is new to me.
     
  11. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    When Promo first came out Alliant stated use Red Dot data, but find the bushing by weighing drops. As others have pointed out.

    I guess Alliant got so many inquries for recipes and comments by bulletin board "experts" stating "that you must have a published recipe" that Alliant picked some of the more popular Red Dot recipes and put them in a "Promo section".

    Jason
     
  12. ccw1911

    ccw1911 Member

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    So they sweep up all the spillings if the factory, blend them togther and add some eye of nat to get it burn like red dot and we buy it? Hey but its cheaper...


    I've been shooting some Promo lately and I'll bet it was one of those nat eyes that broke the target for me cause I know I missed it a mile.
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Promo is like the OEM powders that are used by shell manufacturers. Each lot can be a little different. A major ingredient of gun powder is wood pulp (ground up trees from Mississippi) and each batch of pulp can be a little different.

    ccw1911- There is no powder on the floor to sweep up at the Alliant plant. The plant has suffered some explosions in the past.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    I use Promo all the time along with WST.

    Alliant states that Promo is denser than Red Dot, and that means that for the same bushing, you would get a bit more of the Promo in the weight than Red Dot.

    I use a "G" bushing for both my 1 ounce and 1 1/8 ounce loads. I would suggest that you back off to one bushing smaller for the Promo, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, weight your drops. You'd probably never know the difference, unless you do as I do and chronograph them.

    Whiz White
     
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