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Red Dot Load

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Charles.F.Phillips, Oct 10, 2009.

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  1. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    I saw the thread about Clays becoming available - truth is that I didn't know it had become unavailable. Anyway, someone suggested using Red Dot. I used Hercules Red Dot way back in 1982 - 1983 for handgun loads, but I've never used it in shotshells (for those of you old enough to remember, I used Winchester 452AA then).

    All that aside, I went to the Alliant website and found the following load:

    2-3/4 Winchester AA Plastic Shells<br />
    7/8 oz. lead<br />
    Win 209 primer<br />
    WAA12SL wad<br />
    18 gr Red Dot<br />
    1,250 fps<br />
    9,300 psi

    Does anyone have any experience with this load? There's one more recipe that's otherwise identical, but with a bit more powder, but I never start at the highest load...

    I've been using an almost identical load with Clays powder for the past ten years and I've never seen a cleaner burning load. How does Red Dot compare?

    Assuming equal availability, can any of you think of a good reason to switch?
     
  2. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I suspect no load has been used more than 18 gr of Red Dot. My very first reloads many years ago used Federal paper hulls, Federal primers, one cardboard over powder wad, one short fiber filler wad and one long filler wad with 1 1/8 oz of shot.

    Charles, is Made in America vs. imported a reason to switch?

    Pat Ireland
     
  3. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Red dot and Clays are quite similar except that Red Dot is just a bit slower.

    With a 7/8 oz load you need all the energy per pellet that you can get, since there are less pellets.

    Clays is a bit cleaner...but don't you clean and oil your gun after you shoot?

    I bought a jug of Clays years ago when the Hercules ( now Alliant ) plant blew up, and No Red Dot available. It is OK for light loads, but as soon as Red Dot was available, I used the rest of the Clays for my .38, 9mm and .45 pistol loads.
     
  4. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    <i>"Charles, is Made in America vs. imported a reason to switch?"</i>

    Hmmm... Good point there! Of course many, if not most of the shooters here shoot foreign guns, but I shoot a Ruger Red Label. :)
     
  5. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    <i>"Clays is a bit cleaner...but don't you clean and oil your gun after you shoot?"</i>

    Clean? What are you talking about? :) Seriously, after shooting Clays, the bore only needs a single swab.


    <i>"With a 7/8 oz load you need all the energy per pellet that you can get, since there are less pellets."</i>

    Now that's an excellent point! Plus, a slower powder will have a lower initial pressure spike and should have a milder recoil than I already get (which is practically nothing as it is...)!
     
  6. foghorn220

    foghorn220 Active Member

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    Ok never shot a 7/8 ounce load but I always used to shoot 19 grain of red dot 1 1/8 of shot in a federal gold medal hull then 17.5 grains for the light load.

    I remember the 452 AA powder also I used a lot of the 473 never did try any of the replacement powders such as super field and super target or what ever took 452's place.
    Fog
     
  7. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Charles.F.Phillips

    It's a good load and you selected the right primer. I've used about the same charge weight of Promo with excellent results also.

    I also think that Clays "hits" the wall with pressures sooner than Red Dot/Promo does. I've used Clays for years, but only for 7/8 or 1 oz loads. It's a little too high in pressure for my liking with most 1 1/8 oz loads. It's a little different in Large straight tube hulls. Clay Dot is another alternative, but I think you'd be happy with Red Dot or Promo. Promo will vary in density from lot to lot, so they sell it for a little less money than Red Dot. It is VERY close to Red Dot, except in density.
     
  8. jagrdawger

    jagrdawger TS Member

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    When I experimented with 7/8 oz loads that was the recipe except I used Down Range XXL pinks. It preformed extremely well and will be my skeet load if I ever get an opportunity to shoot it regularly.

    A friend who shoots 7/8 loads uses this same recipe (DR XXL) with great results as well. His breaks are every bit as smokin' as 1 1/8 oz load when he centers them from the 16 yd line.

    This is a great place to start, but consider the DR wads.
     
  9. doc boc

    doc boc Member

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    I have used this load and get more like 1350 from it. drop the powder down to 16.5 and you should get 1250. doc
     
  10. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    Switched over to Red Dot with the Clays shortage and found that 17.8 in a one ounce load gave me 1250+ on the chronograph. Very comfortable to shoot after several boxes and patterns well. Also switche d over to Green Dot for 1 1/8 oz handicap loads and saw my scores go up ... really like it better than International. Don't care about "cleaner" as I shoot so frequently that just wiping the gun down after shooting and then a really good cleaning every couple of weeks serves my purpose. Both Red Dot and Green Dot have become cleaner powders from 10 years ago. Fred
     
  11. shrek

    shrek Active Member

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    Charles,

    I have used that load.

    Mostly I use the load that on Alliant's web page calls for 17.5 grains of Red Dot and the WAA12L wad and substitute the downrange XXL wad instead. In their printed manual it lists either wad.

    Both of them will pound the clay birds hard from the 16, but are super easy on the person pulling the trigger.
     
  12. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    Fog,

    <i>"I remember the 452 AA powder also I used a lot of the 473 never did try any of the replacement powders such as super field and super target or what ever took 452's place"</i>

    Same powders - the only thing that changed was the name. I think they changed the names because some marketing puke thought that we aren't bright enough to figure out the numbering system.
     
  13. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    Quack,

    <i>"Promo will vary in density from lot to lot"</i>

    Obviously one should re-weigh when starting a new canister, but how much variance are you talking about? I would be afraid that if there is too much variance in density, then might there be pressure variances even if you're careful to keep the powder weight measured out the same?
     
  14. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    All,

    This looks like great advice from all of you - keep them coming!

    BTW, I wish for nostalgia's sake I had one of those old paper canisters of 452AA in a large size - in those days,I could only afford the small, 1 pound canisters. :)
     
  15. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    "Promo will vary in density from lot to lot"

    Obviously one should re-weigh when starting a new canister, but how much variance are you talking about? I would be afraid that if there is too much variance in density, then might there be pressure variances even if you're careful to keep the powder weight measured out the same?

    I've found Promo to vary no more than one bushing size (Mec) between different lots. 18 gr will always give you the same pressure, but the volume may be different. Promo is a "blend" of powders that Alliant "tunes" to achieve RedDot characteristics. Great Stuff!
    I like 17.4 gr under both my 7/8 & 1 oz loads.

    AndyH ;-)
     
  16. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Doc.. Respectfully.. Kevin ran my 19.6 Promo/Red Dot on the pressure gun and chrony.. 1330.. In AA and Remington hulls.. So I doubt if you can get 1350 from 18 grains of Red Dot.. In my testing.. 18 grains in 7/8 oz.. is close to 1200fps range + or minus 30 fps.. It's a great place to start with 7/8oz.. and DRXXL is a excellent wad to start with..
     
  17. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Charles,
    Promo is not going to vary in pressure if you drop the correct weight.

    I use Promo for all 16 yd and doubles loads. If you want to push 1 1/8 oz at 1200 or more, then a slower powder is needed.

    I loaded a lot of 7/8 oz loads with the load you are contemplating when my gf started shooting. It shoots well and will cycle a Beretta 3901 or 391.

    Don Verna
     
  18. DOBER01

    DOBER01 TS Member

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    Been using the same load except STS hulls with great success. Increase in speed seems to match my perceived leads and scores have improved. Also cheeper.
     
  19. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Charles.F.Phillips

    Promo will vary from lot to lot, usually by a bushing size or less (Mec). The pressure variations with the same weights should vary only a little. If your loads are well under maximum to begin with, I doubt the pressure variations between lots would be anything to worry about. The velocities are pretty consistent. It looks like I've had more than a dozen lot numbers of Promo over the past number of years. I have about six jugs of Lot #51 left. I buy a few cases at a time, so I don't have to worry about too many variations. I double check my drops every time I start loading, so It's not a problem when opening a new jug. Changing lot numbers just takes a few minutes to check the drops and make adjustments accordingly. If the few tenths either way would bother you, use of an adjustable bar is an option.

    I have used Red Dot for over 40 years, and don't notice any real difference in performance between Red Dot and Promo. I don't use Fiocchi primers in cold weather with Promo or Red Dot, since I've had a good number of loads fail my FREEZER test. I test them cold over a chronograph and compare to room temps. Winchester and Federal primers have performed well for me in colder weather. There are others, but those are the ones I use the most and I have reliable data to support them.
     
  20. Charles.F.Phillips

    Charles.F.Phillips TS Member

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    Quack,

    You're the second to tell me this about Promo, so it's good to hear. I've actually never heard of Promo before, but I believe when my current jug of Clays runs out, I'm going to give Red Dot a try.

    I must admit that I don't re-weigh before each loading session, but I always weigh when starting a new canister or jug and before changing to a different load.

    R/s,<br />
    Charlie
     
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