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RED DOT-GREEN DOT-CLAYS

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by soup, May 19, 2011.

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  1. soup

    soup Member

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    FOLKS ,

    I'm looking for an easy recoil load for 1 1/8 ounce loads . Remington hulls and primers -blue duster wads . Do you all like Clays or Green Dot ?

    Also I'm wondering if anyone loads Red Dot with the same components but green duster wads & 1 ounce or would you still use Green Dot. I think Red Dot gives you a little more recoil-maybe because of the speed it burns and pressure ? Whats your expierence ? Any help will be appreciated .

    Thanks for your time .

    Soup
     
  2. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    With what you have set up: Green Dot Fred
     
  3. JohnR

    JohnR Active Member

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    I use Green Dot for 1 1/8 and Red Dot or Promo for 1 oz, works good for me.
     
  4. RunGunIPSC

    RunGunIPSC TS Member

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    There is only one way to tell. Load up a box or two of each powder. Have a friend stand behind you & do a random rotation. Then you will know. You don't have the powder you need? Ask around the club,I am sure someone will loan you enough for a box or two of shells
     
  5. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    If you wish to reduce recoil, lower the payload or lower the velocity or add mass to the gun or get a softer pad or a recoil reduction system. The more these things you do the less the recoil.

    If you want to think the recoil is less use good ear plugs and add muffs.

    Don Verna
     
  6. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Powder has little to do with recoil. Velocity and payload along with the weight of the gun has way more to do with it. Forget Clays. It's NOT a great powder for 1 1/8 oz loads. It hits the wall way too fast, pressure wise, and is not suitable except for light 1 1/8oz loads at best, unless you are using very large capacity hulls like Federal Gold Medals. Red Dot or Promo will work fine for 2 3/4 dram loads with 1 1/8 oz and there are many decent 3 dram loads. I would prefer to use Green Dot, since there is a little more headroom for pressure and it can easily obtain 1200 fps velocities, or higher, using a wide variety of components without pushing the upper pressure limits. When you put it to the test, I doubt many shooters could tell the difference between 1150 and 1200 fps loads. I think it is nearly impossible to tell the difference between 1200 fps loads with different powders. Just my not so humble opinion.
     
  7. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Soup, What speed do you want to load up your l l/8 oz. loads at??? Clays and Red Dot are a close match (fast burning), while Green Dot is a good handicap powder (slower burning). For speeds in ll50 fps I like Clays the best. Now if you want to load at 1200-1250 fps then Green Dot is a much better choice. Chamber pressures have nothing to do with recoil, or felt recoil. These powders burn difference are so little that no one can tell the difference while shooting them. They only think they can, and sometimes that can make a difference to someone. Larger flake powder meter in my loader very poorly, while the smaller flake powder meter much more consistantly. I like a more consisant drop that Clays gives me. Now go find your favorite load. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  8. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    If you want 1-1/8 ounces of shot, and soft recoil, you want slow muzzle velocities.

    If you want slow muzzle velocities, you will probably want to use Red Dot or Clays. I like Hodgdon products, so I'd choose Clays. Your choice is up to you.

    At 16 yards, 1100 to 1150 fps will break targets just fine, and will reduce recoil.

    As the others have noted, powder choice and chamber pressure have no effect on recoil. Its all about weight of the charge and speed of the charge.
     
  9. Ifitfliesitdies

    Ifitfliesitdies Member

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    If you're looking for a handicap recipe, you should take a look at the reloading data for Unique also. Low pressure also relates to lower recoil.

    I use recipes right from the Alliant web site that have lower pressure and good speed. Very comfortable to shoot.

    Tom
     
  10. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Tom,
    You are incorrect. Pressure has no bearing on recoil. It is a common "old wives tale" that has no basis in science.

    Don Verna
     
  11. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Soup,

    In answer to the second part of your question, yes, a green duster wad and 1 ounce of shot with Clays or Red Dot will work great, and reduce your recoil.
     
  12. QuillDesign

    QuillDesign Member

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    Doesn't recoil have to do with the weight of the shot in there? 7/8 kicks less than 1oz kicks less than 1 1/18th oz.

    The more weight sitting on top of that wad requires more umpf to get it down the barrel.

    So to get the shot to move forward it has to push backwards, the more shot and the faster the speed required the more back reaction needed.

    Paul
     
  13. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Iam bullheaded (German decent), getting more cranky as I get older, and to the point ain't no one going to tell me nothing (except curvy and its mostly deception). But for me Iam a believer that powders do make a difference in recoil. I settled on Green Dot many years ago because of felt recoil and patterning qualities (yes another wives tale that Iam a believer in). This is primarily with use of 1.125 loads. I never cared for Green Dot and 1 oz. but it will darn sure work if your wanting a soft shooter. But the patterns I seen were somewhat patchy and I never could find a load that would eaze my mind with particular gun of choice. Using Blue Dusters (personally don't care for them) and Rem. hulls and primers with 1.125 oz of shot, keep in the 1145fps range and it will be a nice, comfortable load.

    For 1oz I do like Red Dot for reasons stated above.

    I won't bad mouth Clays, but I guess Iam more of an Alliant man. Refer to opening statement to reasoning.
     
  14. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Pheasantmaster,

    Even though I outweigh you by a good 50 lbs I am recoil sensitive. But, I cannot tell the difference between powders - so I started thinking. A VERY BAD thing sometimes.

    If I shoot a GD load and then a RD load they do not feel different. That is the kind of test Winston did - only; random shells with a fast and slow powder. In that type of test, there is no measurable difference. But it is a "real" test????

    Is there a difference if one shoots 200-300 rounds? I will load up a 1000 GD loads and see. Even though the science indicates it should not matter, I will start using GD if it "feels better". I have some German blood in me but I am not too "bullheaded" to change.

    Don Verna
     
  15. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I've used blue and green Dusters for years with no problems.

    BTW...Red Dot and Green Dot are made in the USA.

    Wayne
     
  16. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Don, its most likely mental for me. I can knowing put a 1.125 load of red dot in the chamber and upon firing it seems to kick the bageezies out of me incomparison to green dot. Winston and I never have connected on the test and I doubt he is interested anymore. For my own satisfaction, Curvy said she would perform it with me. We might just do it at a shoot this weekend with more witnesses (don't want her to cheat as she is a nonbeliever as well).

    BTW, ain't nothing in a 1.125 with 700X that I don't think kicks the snot out of me and thats when there twice of me.
     
  17. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Martin,

    Its because Curvy's a geek-techie-type like me.

    When you do the test, make sure you get the weight of the wad+shot is as close to identical as you can. And you have to run both loads through a chronograph to make sure the muzzle velocity is as nearly identical as you can make it.

    You can't assume the load tables are accurate enough.

    And you have to do it blind. That is, you can't know which shells are which.
     
  18. soup

    soup Member

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  19. chikeneyes

    chikeneyes TS Member

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    red dot red dot red dot I have been shooting it sence 1974 and it is still my HDCP powder and it also should be said I have shot well over 100,000
     
  20. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I think felt recoil come through shooting many shots, not a single shell here and there switched back and forth. There's enough variation shell to shell with some peoples reloads it would be totally impossible to tell if someone slipped in an extra five of different burn rate powders on him. I too use Red-Dot for singles and Green-Dot for my 1 ounce loads for handicap shooting. Like Martin, I do believe if you were to give me 5 Red-Dot loads at the same velocities as my GD loads while I was shooting a complete round of handicaps, I could pick them out too. If you gave me all five on whatever station, I think I could tell you which station was RD loads. Certainly not in a one for one test though, shoot this one, more or less??

    Hap
     
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