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Recycling Problem on Older Remington 1100

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Steven R. Scheib, Nov 4, 2007.

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  1. Steven R. Scheib

    Steven R. Scheib TS Member

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    I have an older Remington Model 1100 - 16 gauge that I use for pheasant hunting. When the weather is not so cool, it will recycle my Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads OK. But when the weather turns cool, it's a problem. And when the weather gets cold, I put the gun away. Even with hot loads, the gun just won't work right. Sometimes I'm lucky to have the hull even eject when it's cold out. I take it apart and wipe it dry. I have tried shooting it wet. I have tried the white powdered lube. I replaced the long spring in the stock. I'm perplexed. Any ideas? Steve
     
  2. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    The first issue that comes to my mind would be your ammo. Is the ammo allowed to get really cold? Because cold temperatures have a profound effect on shotshell ammunition.

    Also, from the way you've written your post I can't tell if you're shooting only the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant and/or other "hot" loads, too. Personally, I'm not a fan of Fiocchi shells in 1100s. I've tried many of them (not Golden Pheasant) and found them to be erratic performing. Some cycle well, others, being sluggish-from the same box.

    Try some Remington field loads and see how they work.

    Secondly, you may have a problem with your gas system you are unaware of.
    I've never owned a 16 ga 1100, so, I'm not exactly sure if they use the same diameter piston rings and seals as the 12 ga 1100, but I suspect they may.
    (I recall seeing some parts commonality among 12ga, 16 ga and old 20 ga on the 12 ga receiver in parts manuals)

    If that is the case, double check the piston ring and seals. I know you mentioned the gun is an older 1100, but are you using the new (default) "one-piece" gas piston/seal assembly that snaps toghether? If so - replace that right away with the old fashioned two piece style. (Remington does still make them and you have to specifically request them when you order). That one piece gas piston/seal unit they ship on new guns, causes problems on older 1100s that have slightly larger diameter magazine tubes (trust me, I went through the whole shla-miel with Remington over this about six or seven years ago and finally got them to admit they have a problem with the new ones and got a letter signed by Tommy Milner they would start making the old ones again)

    If that isn't the issue, and you're using the old rings - the ones that actually work - make sure the splits are not lined up together on the two rings and make sure your rings aren't so worn, that they are too loose to give a good seal. And, of course, make sure you have a good barrel seal (O-ring) If you've shot in a lot of cold weather - the ruber barrel seal may have shrunken and hardened in the cold, causing gas loss

    Another item I would check is cleanliness of the gas ports in the barrel. Use a pipe cleaner with some solvent to swipe through the two, tiny port holes.
    If it's really cruddy, use a size # 47 drill bit held in a pin vice to push and pick stubborn residue out.

    Last but not least - in cold weather - are you wearing clothes that may be causing you to not really get a solid
    gun mount? I know it sounds silly, but very often, people sometimes fail to mount a semi auto solidly enough to avoid "short" cycling. It's easy to do with a soft recoiling gun like the 1100, and I've seen people do it to themselves in the summer time, wearing a T-shirt. I would imagine it would be easier to allow a "soft" mount to happen when bundled in puffy, winter clothes. Just a thought.
     
  3. JLW

    JLW TS Member

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    I addition to the above, sound advice, make certain the magazine tube is real clean.-Jerald
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    More...........wrap #000 steel wool around a bore brush and mount in a drill, use with solvent to clean the chamber. Plastic residue and filth collects in there.

    In cold weather the chamber is a few tenths smaller.

    One other thing, not likely but I will mention. there was a case I recall where the shooter was squeezing the forend very hard, and binding the mechanism. I know that's not likely but it did happen at least once.

    HM
     
  5. Steven R. Scheib

    Steven R. Scheib TS Member

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    Thanks very much. Will check all. I am still using the original piston rings. I have replaced the rubber O ring. Gas Ports are spotless. I will clean magazine tube right now. As for hot loads, what I meant was all brands using at least 1 oz of shot. Most are heavy field loads. Have tried Winchester, Remington, etc. The gun works fine in 70 degree weather, but not in 20 to 40 degree. The only loads that cycle without problem are some old Double XX Magnum Winchester with 1 1/4 oz of shot rated at 3 1/4 drams. I have some Dove & Quail loads that I use for occasional target shooting which are 1 oz. They stick in cold weather. The Fiocchi's are 3 1/4 dram 1 1/8 oz of shot at 1310 fps. I will go over gun again with fine tooth comb. Thanks for information. I appreciate it. Steve
     
  6. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    BreakFree CLP!

    Tron?
     
  7. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    Very odd problem. I can see shells losing some oopmh in 20 degree weather but not 40. Since you have zero malfunctions with all shells at 70 degree weather, it sounds to me like either you have some built up crud in the wrong places that sludges up the works when colder, but loosens up enough to allow the gun to work in 70-degree weather. Still could be a gas system issue, but I am doubting that, too because if the gas system was the problem - you'd still have malfunctions even if the temperature was 90-degrees.

    What kind of lube are you using? This issue is sounding more and more like a problem involving dirt and/or congealed gummed up lube that gets worse as the temperature gets colder.
     
  8. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    Also, make sure you are using real BRASS headed ammo, try some Remington STS Premiers 3-dram for starters and as mentioned above, make sure the chamber is really clean.

    Steel heads tend to swell and cling to chamber walls more readily than brass heads do and residue build up makes it worse and the effects would be noticed more in cold weather
     
  9. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    And again, let's not overlook solid gun mounting in that 20 degree weather.

    If you're out there wearing a bunch of layers, or puffy down jacket/vest - you may be inducing the gun to short cycle and not realize it. It could be this and/or a combination of the above. I'd bet its dirt/lube congealing first.

    What makes me think the clothing/mounting might contribute - you're saying that the old 1-1/4 oz loads work. Those offer a lot of oomph from the charge weight to drive the action back and can overcome a "soft" mount more readily
     
  10. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Rings: flat side down on the big (lower) one, beveled side down on the upper one.

    I know that's real basic, but I did it myself once in a senior moment.

    HM
     
  11. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    In addition to the things already mentioned, check out the magazine tube (part of the receiver assembly) for score marks (shiny streaks on the mag. tube)on one or the other sides. When the gas piston slides along, if the magazine tube is bent, dented or warped, it can rub up against the action bar sleeve (#2). (This is the round thing that has the action bars attached ans is pushed by the gas seal.) Another possiblity is that the action bars, where the go into the sleeve may be rubbing against the magazine tube because they were bent inward during a reinstallation process.

    Two other things to check are the cleanliness and lack of bends or dents in the the action spring tube. It he forward action spring follower (#4) (the cupped piece that the link (i.e. tuning fork) (#61) fits into, can not slide freely up and down the tube, you could have a problem.

    The last thing I can recommend is check the action bars (#1)themselves. One of them could be cracked and not giving a "full straight-on push" to the bolt or another possibility is the small approximately 45 degree slightly raised part of the one action bar (near the numeral 1 on the schematic) that pushes on the feed latch (#43) could be worn. I had this problem once and it was a son of a gun to locate. The interesting thing was that the problem I had was more frequent in the cold which sounds kind of like what you are experiencing. My problem was that there was enough wear on this piece that it would not reliably release another shell and sometime is would allow only partial extraction or ejection. The first clue was that, once the problem became more severe, I could cause the problem to show up when I, working with a partially disassembled 1100 and DUMMY shells, slightly twisted the sleeve. If I twisted to make a more positive engagement, it worked fine while twisting it away caused the problem to occur every time. Leaving it in the gun, in normal operation, was a maybe kind of thing. I built the raised part up a couple of hundredths, using a hard chrome spot weld added and ground to match the angle. It lasted for several thousand more rounds before the bar cracked (probably from metal fatigue induced by the weld) at the welded area. A new action bar worked fine. It was only a couple of thousandths shorter on the worn bar than on the new but it was enough to make the difference.

    All of these problems are referenced from the older 12 Ga. 1100 schematic.

    If you look on the attached web page, you can see the parts I mention.
     
  12. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Shoot it wet with Breakfree CLP! But, then again, I think the whole gun should be "Recycled" by melting it down and turning it into a 391.

    Tron
     
  13. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    Hey Tron - why don't you melt down your 391 and make an 1100 out of it??
    I don't know what you'd do with the beer can aluminum they make the frame out of but, you'll have enough steel in the 391's gas system to make rings for a half dozen 1100s!
     
  14. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    Did you get the problem identified/repaired yet???? If so, what was it?
     
  15. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    My brother hunts more than me, He has installed these aftermarket action springs in both his remingtons and a browning gold. He is convinced these have solved 95% of his cold weather cycling issues. also depending on the lube/cleaner. My brother swears by rem oil, will use nothing else. When was the last time that gun got a complete take down and clean. My brothers old school method is tear down entire gun. All metal parts except barrel get a good soak in gasoline. Then wipe dry. Then cleaned in a heavy mix of dish soap and warm water, scrub scrub scrub. I was always amazed at how dirty these parts can get. My dad always said when your done cleaning it. Start over I bet its still dirty. Basically he would clean until the water was no longer soiled. Then would dry off all parts, sometimes hair dryer to speed things up. Then would spray and wipe all parts with oil. then drop oil in the rails fire pin and at pivots in triger group. I have never seen rust or any major issues with his guns.
     
  16. Steve-CT

    Steve-CT TS Member

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    Be wary of using gasoline. Too dangerous. Low flash point and scrubbing metal parts with it can possibly make a spark. Kerosene is a little safer, more stable and has not quite as volatile a flash point as gasoline.

    I too, recommend Rem Oil (in winter) I prefer Break Free in summer and am shooting alot more then anyway
     
  17. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Like I said, Ols school method of gasoline. I wont do it. To messy and smells. I would just go straight to the dish soap. I myself have found Mpro 7. cleans no harsh odor. Note, Soak parts in gas then wipe dry. Then clean in dish soap and water.
     
  18. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    My short exsperience, most guns that come my way that are, junk POS. 90% needed a good cleaning and proper lube. Just a note here. The guys who seem to have the most problems with their guns at our club use WD40. Yup just spray it in there, it will br ok.
     
  19. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    What halfmile said! Check the piston and piston seal for proper installation. Not trying to be a wise acre.
     
  20. Wilma Harris

    Wilma Harris TS Member

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    As suggested above, clean the magazine tube where the rings work with #0000 steel wool, then making sure everything else is totally clean, leave it dry. Do not use any oil anywhere. If this fixes your problem fine, but you will have to be sure you clean it after firing it as it might now rust. This test will tell you is you are using too much lubricant and/or the wrong kind.

    Have you removed the stock and cleaned the action return spring and inside its housing? Be sure and get all the goop out of this area.
     
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