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Recoil - Fast Burning v. Slow Burning Powder

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by TomJ, May 15, 2010.

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  1. TomJ

    TomJ Member

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    My apologies if this has been covered before, but I have a question regarding actual versus perceived recoil when using fast v. slow burning powder. Would throwing wad composition (stiff v. stiffer wad) into the equation make a difference? I currently shoot 1 oz., 17.5 gr. Promo, DRXL1 wad, in a Rem Gun Club case, with a Noble Sport primer. It has been suggested that I would notice a significant reduction in recoil, if I changed to either Green Dot or Tite Group AND Remington TGT wads. Has anyone actually compared the difference? Thanks in advance for your comments. Tom
     
  2. poacherjoe

    poacherjoe Well-Known Member

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    This has been a very hot topic with varying views!
    You and only YOU can percieve the FELT recoil! Others say it isn't so.Go load up 19.5 grs of green dot in the 1 ounce load and shoot a few.Then shoot your promo loads and see for yourself.
    Myself,I went with promo for the cost factor but I would rather shoot the green dot loads for the lesser FELT recoil!PJ
     
  3. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    For your reading pleasure. View the complete thread.


    According to a few resident experts of firm opinion, no one can tell the difference between powder burning rates, all other variables remaining the same.


    That is either a fact, or, their statements are one of the biggest deceptions that has ever been posted on this website. One thing is a given, the burn rates are different. That they can't deny.

    What I am waiting for, is for someone to say or print that they are going to 'use faster burning powder because it shoots softer'. But I certainly won't be holding my breath.

    Which ever way it is, one way or the other, the side that is wrong will be guilty of one of the biggest hoax's since smokeless powder.


    Only you will be able to decide.
     
  4. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to side with Newton on this one....
     
  5. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I do not know if Newton will give you the answer on this one. If I remember correctly, his formula deals only with mass and velocity. I think the difference between fast and slow burning powder, is in its acceleration to that velocity (faster burning translatinmg to faster acceleration). Differences in perceived recoil is probably due to this difference in acceleration; all other parameters being held constant. My two cents. Chichay
     
  6. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    'Perceived' recoil is, well, .. a perception and is individual, but in EVERY blind test of which I'm aware, the shooter could tell no difference in same velocity loads of Red Dot and PB (or Red & Green), which are about as similar as chalk & cheese.


    Bob
     
  7. slipping into darkness

    slipping into darkness TS Member

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    according to a ballistics expert, the only thing that change's is perceived felt recoil! Recoil is recoil the only way to reduce recoil is, use less shot!!! or a recoil reducer.
     
  8. ctreay

    ctreay Member

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    "For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction". Did you ever remember hearing that?

    ctreay
     
  9. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    TomJ, last summer I tested eleven people and the ability many of them thought they had to tell the difference between powders. The powders were far apart - Red Dot and PB. The speeds were the same. The task was trivial. Not even to tell which was more, which was which, or anything like that. Nothing more than "same" or "different" on two consecutive shots.

    No one would demonstrate better-than-chance ability to do it. People can't tell the difference. Link above.

    Neil
     
  10. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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  11. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    Neil,

    Didn't you prove that burning speed has no effect on recoil in your write-up link you placed on SGW?

    Rollin
     
  12. TomJ

    TomJ Member

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    Thanks to everyone for your responses, question answered.
    Tom
     
  13. davidjayuden

    davidjayuden Well-Known Member

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    Anyone ever shoot the old Nitro Express double rifles? There is a notable difference in the old British-made Kynoch cartridges, loaded with Cordite, and reloads typically using 3031. Cordite gave the shooter the feeling of a push (OK, maybe a heck of a shove from the big bruisers) whereas the cartridges loaded with 3031 could give a sharper wallop. Velocity had to be kept nearly identical because the barrels were regulated for a certain point of convergance and that velocity and bullet weight were key to getting them to print together.
    My point is that when driving the lead out at the same speed, the materials used to make the bang can create a difference noticable to us on the kickee end.
    Now whether I could tell the difference between Promo and Green Dot is unlikely, but doing a double-blind study would be an interesting undertaking.
    dju
     
  14. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    dju

    Go up to the post by Neil Winston, and click on the Website Address he listed up there.

    There's your double blind study.
     
  15. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    To feel the difference, one must be able to distinguish the difference of 3 to 4 10/1000 of a second. That is the difference in burning rate to reach peak pressure.

    When we reload the same load the amount of shot and powder varies a little in each hull. This variation will result in a greater difference in recoil than powder burning speed. I have never found anyone who could tell the difference among shells from the same box.

    Pat Ireland
     
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