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recipe problem

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by singles, May 15, 2009.

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  1. singles

    singles Member

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    New to this reloading stuff and had everything in order but when i got to the store they were out of a couple items so the guy behind the counter who seemed to know a lot sold me the following. Red dot powder, cci209 primers (not 209M), windjammer wads, and #8 shot. I had planned to load these in the AA hulls that I already have. Now I can not find a recipe for a 1 1/8oz trap load using the CCI 209 primers. As the guy was talking to me he did tell me to remembe that just becasue one recipe says one thing, you can substite items, like wads and primers. Now I'm second guessing the guy and hoping I didn't buy the wrong stuff. Any help would be appreciated.

    Dave
     
  2. The Rock

    The Rock Active Member

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    May have to change wads is all.

    Warning this recipe is old (1975) I do not think that Red Dot or CCI 209 have changed. But you would be wise to ask them (powder Company).


    AA wad - 1&1/8 shot - 18 grains Red Dot - CCI 209 and AA hull =10400 LUP & 1200 FPS

    This is from the 1975 Hercules Smokeless Powder Guide (I know but I don't throw anything away) LOL.

    Not sure if Windjammer wads were even available then.

    Rock

    Jim
     
  3. Frank C

    Frank C Well-Known Member

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    go to the Alliant powder website, I have pasted the link above....and below, looks like AA12 wads is all you need....

    http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?shotype=&weight=1.125&weightdis=1%201/8&shellid=493&gtypeid=3&gauge=12
     
  4. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    Hope you have a scale, the bushing charts are only good starting points and different lots of powder often have different density.

    Check out the link above for the general website if the other one does not give you anything.

    The Golden Rule of reloading shotgun shells is to follow tested recipes exactly. But in the guys defense, in these times of component shortages, one may need to substitute.

    With the components you have I would have no qualms loading 17.5 grains of Red Dot, this should give you about 1145 f/s or a 1 1/8 oz 2 3/4 Dr.Eq. load. This is bacause Alliant list a 1145 f/s load with a Win 209 primer, 17.5 gr RD 1145 f/s 9300 psi.

    I would not load any of the fastest loads listed, unless the pressure is less than 10,000 psi with any component substitutions. FYI the Maximum pressure for 2 3/4" 12 ga. is 11,500 psi.

    Jason
     
  5. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    If you want to load to 1200 f/s, you should pick up some Win AA12 or its clone wads. Lyman's 5th ed Shotshell Reloading Handbook has the following: Win AA hull, CCI 209 primer, 1 1/8 oz of shot, Win AA12 wad, 19.0 gr Red Dot 1200 f/s 10,600 psi.

    Jason
     
  6. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Swapping primers is a crap shoot. Primer substitions can have a dramatic effect on pressures. The Windjammer wads generally produce lower pressures than some. I would suggest calling or emailing Alliant for their advice. They can probably give you some direction since they developed most of the data they have listed for their powders. If you must, then select a load that develops a low pressure (8000 - 9000 PSI) with all of the other components and giving it a go. If you want, you can drop the powder charge a half grain to be on the safe side. I try to stay below 10,000 PSI with 12 ga target loads. The CCI209 is not usually one that develops the highest pressures, but it could in some cases. Since the Federal 209A usually develops some of the highest pressures, You'd probably be OK to use somewhere around 17.0 - 17.5 grains of Red Dot. That would probably get you around 1145 fps. They list up to 18.0 grains with the Federal primer and 17.5 with the Winchester. If you wanted to go much faster, I'd look at a different powder like Green Dot or Unique, since they can develop more velocity at a lower pressure. Be sure to weigh your powder drops to verify what you are getting from your loader. It would be a plus if you could buy or borrow an inexpensive chronograph to compare what your load's velocities are, against some factory shells. It would give you an idea of velocity, but not pressures. Just don't load too many of them at first, just in case they don't work as you expected. If you are located within a reasonable drive from the eastern shore of Maryland, you could run some over mine at our club.
     
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