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'Reasonable' NRA/Brady gun ban passes Senate

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Dec 19, 2007.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    More for you 'reasonable' gun compromisers to choke on. If it weren't so serious, I'd LMAO if any of you compromisers are a vet who has undergone any kind of counselling, including no-choice ordered counselling upon return from combat. I have a buddy who went through that crap and it took him years to get his gun rights back.

    12.19.07 NRA/ Brady Campaign Gun Control Bill Passes Senate

    As was predicted by our friends at the National Association For Gun RIghts, the Senate chose this busy time, when they hoped no one was paying attention, to ram through the NRA and Brady Campaign supported gun grab, HR 2640.

    As we have told you, this bill will vastly expand the failed Brady background checks, which are already denying countless legitimate gun purchases.

    In a press release issued today, the anti-gun "Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence" said "We commend the United States Senate for its action today to strengthen the Brady background check system by passing the "NICS Improvement Act of 2007' (H.R. 2640)."

    The Nation Rifle Association is now firmly in bed with the most militant gun grabbers in the country. While we have seen no press releases yet from NRA, it is clear that they now have allied themselves with the people who have called for a complete elimination of privately owned semi-automatic firearms and countless other attacks on the Second Amendment.

    As we write this, we do not have vote counts on the bill. We will post them as soon as they become available.

    The Bill now goes back to the House for concurrence with the Senate version. As you know, the bill originally sailed through the House on an unrecorded voice vote. The only "no" vote we know of was from Congressman (and Presidential candidate) Ron Paul.

    Our last chance to kill this outrageous NRA gun grab is back in the House.

    Contact info for your House member can be found here. Your House member will be the third person listed after your US Senators.

    Please contact them with the simple message, "The NRA and Sarah Brady DON'T speak for me. Vote NO on HR 2640."

    There may not be much time. The bill has already been sent back to the House and if the Senate's actions are any indication, this might get acted on before Christmas.

    Please contact your Congressman right now, and if you have not already done so, please consider making a contribution to our political action committee.

    Contributions qualify for a tax credit and will help us defeat politicians who are attacking your rights. You can make a secure and easy on line donation here.

    Be sure to use the drop down menu to note that your contribution is for our PAC. You can learn more about the tax credit here. But don't delay, your contribution must be made before the end of the year to qualify for the 2007 tax credit. And PLEASE contact your Congressman today and tell them to vote NO on concurrence with the Senate on HR 2640.
     
  2. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    who are you trying to get PAC donations for?
     
  3. Phil E

    Phil E TS Member

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    Thanks for posting the link, MX-8B. Very interesting reading. Phil E
     
  4. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I think that groups that post such outlandsh claims are thought of as the "fringe" of society by the majority of people in the US

    That is really why the NRA doesnt have more members and why some high profile members have quit--

    Oh there are the cheapies that refuse to pay or come up with reasons such as junk mail not to belong but that isnt what hurts membership- it is people worried about being tied to the fringe

    There has to be a middle ground here

    Gene
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Well, it boils down to this - do you trust that a law compromised with the Brady Campaign won't come back to bite us in the ass, or not?

    I don't trust it, and neither do a lot of pro-gun groups, who have stated they see danger in the bill.
     
  6. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    No Brian-- what it really boils down to is when does being perceived to be on the "fringe" hurt the end objective?

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  7. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    up for "little" al
     
  8. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    The best Gun Bill is NO gun bill! Don't trust the bastards!
     
  9. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Bigger Al; I guess you never heard of free speech and you don't think it applys to Gene. While I am not a Gene fan I really resent you putting up that dumb childish post every time Gene comments. You happen to be the one who ends up looking stupid. Grow up.

    Don
     
  10. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Bill Eases Way to Flag Gun Buyers (Article)

    Prospective gun buyers with mental health problems will be easily flagged now that a long-stalled bill inspired by the mass murder at Virginia Tech has been passed.

    In a voice vote Wednesay Congress passed the measure, which would help states with the cost.

    It comes after months of negotiations between Senate Democrats and Republican Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, the lone lawmaker who objected and delayed passage.

    Coburn had worried the measure did not pay for successful appeals by veterans and others who claim they are wrongly barred from buying a gun. But he and Democratic supporters agreed the government would pay for the cost of appeals by gun owners and prospective buyers who argue successfully in court that they were wrongly deemed unqualified for mental health reasons.

    The bill would authorize up to $250 million a year over five years for states and as much as $125 million a year over the same period for state courts to help defray the cost of enacting the policy.

    "This bill will make America safer without affecting the rights of a single law-abiding citizen," said the Senate's chief sponsor, New York Democrat Chuck Schumer.

    One of the House's chief sponsors, New York Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, spoke about her husband, who was killed by a gunman on the Long Island Railroad in New York.

    "To me, this is the best Christmas present I could ever receive," she said.

    Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., added that the bill will speed up background checks and reinforce the rights of law abiding gun owners.

    The Virginia Tech shootings on April 16, helped usher the bill through. Student Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 students and himself using two guns he had bought despite his documented history of mental illness. He had been ruled a danger to himself during a court commitment hearing in 2005. He had been ordered to have outpatient mental health treatment and should have been barred from buying the two guns he used.

    Virginia never forwarded the information to the national background check system.

    The measure would clarify what mental health records should be reported to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which help gun dealers determine whether to sell a firearm to a prospective buyer, and give states financial incentives for compliance. The attorney general could penalize states if they fail to meet compliance targets.

    Also, the bill was underpinned by an uncommon accord between political foes: the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the National Rifle Association.

    The compromise between Coburn and Democrats requires that incorrect records — such as expunged mental health rulings that once disqualified a prospective gun buyer but no longer do — be removed from system within 30 days.

    The original bill requires any agency, such as the Veterans Administration or the Defense Department, to notify a person flagged as mentally ill and disqualified from buying or possessing a gun.

    The new version now also would require notification when someone has been cleared of that restriction.

    It was not immediately clear whether President Bush intended to sign, veto or ignore the bill.
     
  11. Lone Gunmen

    Lone Gunmen TS Member

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    The NRA/ILA site makes it sound ok. What's in it for the Brady bunch? There has to be another side or they wouldn't touch it. ag
     
  12. Cush

    Cush TS Member

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    The bill is exactly the kind of REASONABLE legislation we need to stop the WRONG PEOPLE from getting guns. Every time one of these misfit pshchos commits a slaughter with a gun a hundred thousand more people say "screw it, just outlaw them all."

    No wonder the NRA is supporting this bill. Only a moron would oppose it.

    (Yeah, I know, "define slaughter." :)
     
  13. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Cush..... I'm inclined to agree with you. The more mall and campus (slaughter) shootings there are the bigger chance of a worse gun ban.

    I'm against any kind of ban but something has to be done with these unstable idiots shooting people. If we don't help clean our own house some else is going to and I guarantee that no one will like that outcome. JMHO

    Bill

    P.S. BiggerAl.....BigDon does have a valid point.
     
  14. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Brian.....This is the first I've heard of PAC. One thing I do believe is that the more we are divided the better chance the anti-gun war machine has of victory.

    Bill
     
  15. oletymer

    oletymer Member

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    Cush and Bill are right. It is something that has to be done. If you fight a bill to keep guns out of the hands of people with mental problems you invite efforts to ban them from all.
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    lone gunmen, quote: "The NRA/ILA site makes it sound ok. What's in it for the Brady bunch? There has to be another side or they wouldn't touch it. ag"

    Indeed.

    Here are a couple of items from the Brady website about this legislation. The first thing I noticed is that there is no mention whatsoever about teaming up with the NRA. *If* this is such good legislation, then why is the NRA empowering the Brady Bunch instead of going it alone on this? This is putting a major feather in the caps of the Brady Bunch, and it's a reasonable bet that no credit will be given to the NRA on their website or in their publications or news releases. Secondly, the Brady information makes no mention of appeals processes, etc. No mention of any safeguards for people unfairly caught up by this legislation. I doubt they have any interest at all in that aspect, since they don't believe anyone should own guns iin the first place. I hope and pray that the NRA is 'doing the right thing' and this won't come back to bite us in the ass. I do not trust the Brady Bunch in any way, shape or form, and neither should the NRA. It would not surprise me that the media only airs credit to the brady Bunch for this, and no mention of the NRA at all. Further, I am not convinced that the people who are supposedly protected from problems with this act will be truly adequately protected. Time will tell.

    ----------------------

    The Brady Campaign Works to Strengthen the Brady Background Check System >HOT!<

    A bill that would help prevent tragedies like Virginia Tech is stalled in the Senate. Many states fail to supply thousands of records of prohibited gun buyers to the national Brady background check system. The result is that felons, domestic violence abusers, and those who are dangerously mentally ill can walk into gun stores and buy weapons without being stopped.

    Congress must pass strong legislation to ensure that records get into the Brady background check system of dangerous people who are already prohibited from buying guns. The bill called the National Instant Check System (NICS) Improvement Act would address this critical problem.

    Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma has blocked the bill from moving forward. The Brady Campaign urges Senator Coburn to allow the bill to move forward so that the Senate can act immediately.

    -------------

    News Release
    Brady Campaign Praises Congress for Action on Brady Background Checks


    For Immediate Release:
    12-19-2007

    Contact Communications:
    (202) 898-0792


    Washington, D.C. – Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, issued the following statement:

    “We commend the United States Congress for its action today to strengthen the Brady background check system.”

    “The Virginia Tech killer was able to arm himself because the court order that should have blocked his gun purchase was not reported to the Brady background check system. This is why many of the families of those killed or injured on April 16 joined with us on October 16 to push for passage of this legislation.

    “It is estimated that at least eight out of ten persons disqualified from buying guns for mental health reasons still have not had their records entered into the system, as well as one out of every four records of those convicted of felonies. As the Virginia Tech shootings show, the result of this ‘records gap’ can be fatal.

    “Now that both the House and Senate have both approved the ‘NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007’ (H.R. 2640), we urge the President to sign this legislation to strengthen the Brady background check system. Every day that passes until this legislation becomes law, dangerous people will go into gun stores and not be blocked from buying deadly weapons, thus putting lives at risk.”

    # # #


    As the nation's largest, non-partisan, grassroots organization leading the fight to prevent gun violence, the Brady Campaign, with its dedicated network of Million Mom March Chapters, works to enact and enforce sensible gun laws, regulations and public policies. The Brady Campaign is devoted to creating an America free from gun violence, where all Americans are safe at home, at school, at work, and in our communities.

    For continuing insight and comment on the gun issue, read Paul Helmke's blog at www.bradycampaign.org/blog/. Visit the Brady Campaign website at www.bradycampaign.org.
     
  17. Gold E

    Gold E TS Member

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    Brian,

    Although I agree with you in principal, like the NRA we, as responsible gun owners, must be willing to compromise on some level to allow or even assist in preventing guns from getting into the hands of those with a potential for greater harm. As others have stated, a total unwillingness to compromise will indeed make it easier for the anti-gun groups to limit, restrict, or totally abolish guns. Like it or not, the NRA is a political entity, and politics is comprised of negotiation and compromise.

    Spun from another direction, I can see the potential for tremendous good will-public relations on behalf of the NRA. The organization can demonstrate that responsible gun owners are truly concerned about reducing gun violence by mentally unstable persons.

    I don’t view this as the NRA being “in bed” with the Brady Bunch but rather, being close to their side to act as our watchdog over them.

    I don't think that you will ever see the BC offer credit to the NRA for any type of support.

    Respectfully Submitted,

    Gold E
     
  18. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Gold E, my position is that gun laws should not infringe upon law abiding citizens. That anyone who is law abiding should be able to own any gun in any quantity they want without government interference or infringement.

    This means NO COMPROMISE when it comes to infringements of any kind.

    Having said that, I'm perfectly willing to listen to, and even accept, gun laws that DO NOT infringe upon the Second Amendment.

    And that's the challenge. The easy, incompetent way out is to create legislation that infringes upon law abiding gun owners. Further, the vast majority of gun laws do not affect criminals, because only law abiding citizens will obey them. The very people who are not the problem are the ones being targeted by these laws.

    So, the first thing I look at with ANY legislation, no matter how "reasonable" it may be is - does this infringe upon law abiding gun owners. If it does, then it should be rejected out of hand, and if it had any merit in the first place, send it back to be rewritten so our rights are not infringed.

    You'd think most gun owners would understand that. But no. It's just like the old geezer Fudd I saw at the Portland Expo Gun Show years ago. "Yessir, them's the ay-salt wippins what's gunna git ouh gun raghts taken 'way. Yessir." Sorry, but this foolish moron apparently does not understand that given ANY opportunity to restrict the rights of law abiding gun owners in ANY manner, the anti's will jump on it, taking another slice of the pie at a time.

    That's why legislation like this, with the NRA in bed with Brady, needs to be examined extremely carefully under a microscope. Frankly, the NRA has not had a good track record with some legislation (as we in Oregon unfortunately know from past experience), which resulted in a near coup as some of the previous BoD were replaced.

    Is the legislation bad on its face. Doesn't appear to be. But the devil is in the details, and that's why we must examine it closely. I'm not convinced the safeguards are there. Or that the anti's, after getting this through with the help of the NRA, won't turn around and sue to neutralize those parts that the NRA demanded be included.

    I don't think I'm being paranoid when the words "Brady Campaign" are used in conjunction with gun legislation.
     
  19. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    RE: the Second Amendment and rights

    A moot argument at this time as the supreme court will rule on the second amendment sometime in 2008.

    ------------------

    States Take Sides on D.C. Gun Ban Challenge
    December 18, 2007 - 2:30pm

    Hank Silverberg, WTOP Radio

    WASHINGTON -- When the U.S. Supreme Court takes up D.C.'s gun ban in March, it could open up a new battle between the states.

    States across the country are lining up on both sides, filing friends of the court briefs for or against the District's law banning handguns.

    D.C. has the toughest gun control law in the country.

    Virginia, along with Arkansas and Texas, are joining the challenge of the ban.

    "This is a case of fundamental importance to the interpretation of the Constitution of the United States that is going to impact every state and every territory in the Union based on how they rule," Virginia Attorney General Bob McDonnell says.

    Maryland, New York, Illinois and Hawaii are filing briefs backing the law.

    If D.C. wins the case, the effects will ripple across the country, McDonnell says.

    "My sense is that it would open the doors for much broader and much more vast restrictions that would be permissible on firearms," McDonnell says.

    McDonnell predicts almost all of the states will take one side of the argument.
     
  20. JohnBT

    JohnBT TS Member

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    Let's see what the gun grabbers have to say about it. From the Violence Policy Center: "Gun Lobby Hijacks Bill"

    www.vpc.org/press/0712nics.htm

    "Gun Lobby Hijacks Bill Intended to Improve Gun Buyer Background Checks
    Legislation Passed by Congress Would Revive Failed Multi-Million-Dollar Program to Restore Gun Privileges of Persons Currently Ineligible to Possess Firearms Because of Mental Health Disability

    WASHINGTON, DC--Leading national gun violence prevention organizations the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, Legal Community Against Violence, and the Violence Policy Center today warned that a bill intended to improve the records available to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)--the national system used to screen gun buyers--has been hijacked by the gun lobby and would now do far more harm than good.

    The “NICS Improvement Act” passed today by the U.S. House and Senate would:

    Resuscitate a failed government program that spent millions of dollars annually to allow persons prohibited from buying guns to regain the ability to legally acquire firearms. The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) would be required to establish a “relief from disability” program to allow persons now prohibited from possessing a firearm because they have “been adjudicated as a mental defective” or “committed to a mental institution” to apply to have their bar on firearms possession removed. As a result of the bill, more than 116,000 individuals would be eligible to apply. "

    There's more at the link at the top.

    Now I ask you, who's right on this, the anti-NRA crowd or the gun grabbers like the VPC who think the NRA has won another round?

    Don't believe me, after all I'm an NRA member, listen to the other side.

    John
    Member www.vcdl.org
    NRA Patron
     
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