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Reason to buy high-end trap gun?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by bluedsteel, Oct 23, 2010.

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  1. bluedsteel

    bluedsteel Member

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    There is always much discussion and debate on this site regarding expensive trap guns versus less expensive trap guns, and their relative merits. At the risk of leaving someone's favorite gun out, for the purposes of this post, I consider the Krieghoff, Kolar, Perazzi, Seitz, and top-end Berettas to be obvious examples of high-end trap guns. There are certainly others.

    It is often expressed that "It is the shooter, not the gun" that matters. Compelling arguments are made in favor of this proposition. We all know extremely good shooters who shoot less expensive guns quite well with much success.

    But as one who finds himself asking "Would I do better if I had a better gun?", I must ask this question of those of you with experience in this area:

    Is it not true that given the same amount of effort, one would likely shoot higher scores with a top-end gun, versus a less expensive gun?

    I realize the gun has to fit, etc. But I wonder if I had made the same effort with a K-gun or P-gun(that fits) as I have with my Browning (that fits), would I be further along, with a higher everage, etc?

    I would be interested in hearing from individuals who have perhaps tried a more expensive gun, stuck with it long enough to give it a fair chance, and what their outcome was.

    Thanks.
     
  2. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    Very simply put.. the best trigger,best fit gives you the best chance of doing your best.. You can't get the "best" trigger when its a cheap cast part..in a cheap cast or plastic housing..and expect it to last 100,000 rounds or more..
     
  3. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    You can't buy a score. The most expensive gun won't add one target to your score. Taking that money and spending it on practice or lessons is the only way to buy a score.

    jim brown
     
  4. chipking

    chipking TS Member

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    The answer is so obvious that I'm surprised that so few know it. You would feel like crap if you shoot poorly with a shotgun that cost more than your first car so you try much harder therefore you shoot better with the high dollar gun. The flip side being that no one notices how poorly you shoot with your favorite old beater so why try harder.

    --- Chip King ---
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    PBB has it correct.
     
  6. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    "Taking that money and spending it on practice or lessons is the only way to buy a score."

    Jim--I certainly agree with this but some needs to be spent on fitment. A 100 straight from a $350 Remington 870 looks the same as a $10,000 P or K Gun on paper. I do also agree with PerraziBB that the higher end guns are more refined than most low end guns and can aide in your scores. I went from a brand new Browning BT99 to a Browning BT100 to a Beretta 682 Gold E Trap. My scores went progressively higher as i changed thru these guns. Did the gun make my scores improve because of fitment or because they went up in price and some amount of quality?? Maybe i was just getting better and the gun didn't matter at all?? Honestlty i don't know the answer but i'm happy with the direction i'm going.--Matt Parker

    I did have Greg Hissem set up the Beretta for me with a RAD II and adjustable comb so i defintely know it fits me better. That had to help!!
     
  7. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    You can eat all the cheap plastic parts in a Mdl 12, a BT 99 or many other good inexpensive guns and not get constipated.

    jim brown
     
  8. DecalDude

    DecalDude Active Member

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    Guns are like cars Why do some drive Caddys and Lincoln or Mercedes BMW or even Corvette? Because they can! I shoot Brownings and my USED Beretta because thats what I can afford.

    I will admit I have spoken to a few gunsmiths who shoot higher end guns and they do have more time into them and more detailed craftmanship and quicker lock times.

    If I could afford 1 I would be shooting a Seitz, Afferman,Kreighoff too!


    Status symbols unless your fortunate and have won 1 or a heck of a sponser.


    Jerry Lewis
     
  9. OGC Director

    OGC Director TS Member

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    I went from an 870TC to a BT100 to a Rem 3200 to a Beretta 682X to a TM1 and my av. and yardage has increased with each. I still have the 870TC and the 682X is my doubles gun. I currently shoot the TM1 but I have put a 35" Hastings Hi-rib barrel on it.

    Rich (can't afford to go High-end) in Indiana
     
  10. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    jb... chew well. the rest of us high gun shooters will feed off the top group of guns. think devon harris. or perhaps you do not see the cover of trap and field.
     
  11. Seitz Shooter

    Seitz Shooter Member

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    Because I wanted one.

    Adios, Dirk
     
  12. bluedsteel

    bluedsteel Member

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    I'll have to admit, Chip King puts an interesting perspective on this...

    In any event, I understand that some people are "gun people"; that is they simply enjoy possessing a very high quality or elaborately decorated firearm. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, and I am not questioning this. If this brings one pleasure, so be it.

    I was once a "gun guy". I had a high end colection, enjoyed it for a while, then got tired of having it just sit in a safe and sold the whole shebang...don't miss it.

    So, if one has no real desire to own a high end gun, but does desire to shoot good scores consistently, is a high-end gun the way to go? I realize that the gun itself is not sufficient to achieve high scores, but is it necessary?

    bluedsteel
     
  13. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    If I was building a shotgun and wanted to charge 10 times what it was worth I would sure as h--- hire a world class shooter to showcase it. Did he shoot well because he has the gun or does he have the gun because he shoots well? You are doing the sport a disservice by telling new shooters they cannot compete at the highest levels without spending a ridiculous amount for a gun. That is just plain self-serving BS.

    jim brown
     
  14. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    PerazziBigBore nailed it.

    Trap is about precision approximation. In order to consistently do well, you need to eliminate as many variables as you can. When I first started, I thought that the trigger on a shotgun was a non-issue. I've since learned better.

    The trigger on my DT-10 was the best trigger I've ever used in a shotgun. I would never have sold it except that it had a cast off stock and I'm a lefty. In retrospect I should have just put another stock on it.

    I have an 870CT that I do very well with, but my Ljutic is better yet.
     
  15. warpspeed

    warpspeed Member

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    I think the perfect trap gun for me looks something like this:

    Well made of top quality materials to last the thousands of rounds shot each year.
    Designed to be "tuned up" so as to function consistently as it gets older.
    Have a high quality match trigger that is tunable.
    Have a stock that can be adjusted to fit in all directions.
    Have a barrel rib that can be adjusted for impact & aim.


    You are not going to get all these features in a $ 350 gun. Probably not even in a $1500 gun. So to answer the OP, the reasons to buy a high end gun are to get these features in order to perform your best.

    BTW, I don't own one. I shoot a BT99 and like it just fine but would like one of the P or K guns with the above features.
     
  16. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    I mean no disrespect to any make or model of gun.. My old BT-99 was as good as they came.. AFTER getting a fantastic trigger job.. It's really all about the trigger pull and fit to me.. I want to take the hardware..out of the equasion.. When I miss.. it's ALL MY miss.. not a sluggish trigger.. or to much trigger travel.. etc.. If you can get that out of a stock Remington..power to you.. It took custom parts to get it right for me.. BTW.. I shoot a 870 pump from the parking lot with a 36" Hastings barrel..$$$$$ are on the line.. My Seitz and Perazzi stay in the truck..

    Fuggly is a Stevens 9478 `10 gauge..36" full choke with a 12 gauge chamber sleeve.. All internal parts are made of tool steel.. The trigger is a crisp 3.5 pounds.. It's more than earned its keep..

    Something as simple as on old 680 Beretta I feel would be vastly better than some of the $1500 stuff out there today.. Great trigger.. good dependable gun..

    In any event.. shoot what YOU feel is the right gun for you.. And yes.. I agree with getting the best coach you can get.. It made a world of difference to me.. All Good.. Mike
    [​IMG]
     
  17. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Simple...It's because you can afford it....Truth be known, there are more "High End" guns sold to those that never shoot registered trap or registered anything.

    If my firearms value were the result of my shooting registered.....I'd still be using a sling shot. My firearms reflect what I can and do desire to purchase.

    I find it wise not to laugh at those, that have earned the means to shoot what ever they desire. Trying to put down someone with a nice gun, because he does not shoot well is trailer trash talk.
     
  18. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    I bought the TMX used over 23 years ago for under $2k Canadian. I can afford to buy a new Single barrel trap gun but I hesitate to do it because I am not convinced that I could shoot better with a new gun. I have a single barrel for my MX3 Doubles gun which has the same fit and POI as the TMX but I don't shoot it as well just because the release trigger is too fast. I will probably finish my shooting days with the TMX but it sure would be nice to have a new TM9.
     
  19. Chugiakshooter

    Chugiakshooter Member

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    Well when you break a trigger with a cheap gun it is cheap to fix,but I can put my spare trigger in my Perazzi in a few seconds or under a minute and be ready to go.My SKB are great guns,lock up tight and have a good trigger,but when you have a problem which you will you just can't fix it quickly.
     
  20. X Trap 2

    X Trap 2 TS Member

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    I shoot a P gun and shoot it very well. It has broke a lot and at times I do not have time to fix what broke and finish the round.

    I bought a Cole for a back up because I believe it has the least parts of any trap gun made and seems to never let one down. It always just keeps on ticking. Ray
     
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