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Ready to get CHUMPED on Immigration?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by crusha, Jan 28, 2013.

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  1. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    I think Mickey Kaus nailed it in his column. They're going to present a "balanced" immigration plan, with Amnesty + Enforcement. Then, as soon as the ink on the bill is dry, La Raza and ACLU lawyers will go to work on undermining the enforcement provisions.


    You know the drill, eh? Some A/H judge will lodge an injunction against it, and, thanks to the miracle of the "severability" clause, the rest of the legislation (Amnesty) will come out smelling like a rose.


    What? Me cynical? Wait and see, Futbol fans, wait and see.
     
  2. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    Wouldn't doubt it a bit, good dem voters coming in
     
  3. ramorton

    ramorton TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Yea, when it's over, they'll be giving your s.s. to wetbacks. Oh yes, that is your money.
     
  4. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Same rhetoric, different day. Can't wait for Obamas spin tomorrow!

    Robert
     
  5. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    I can hear it now. "If I had a son...and he was Mexican..."
     
  6. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Of course we're going to get chumped and dumped. Enforcement is never going to happen just like budget cuts never happen. The amnesty of the 80s was supposed to have enforcement, just like the budget deal in the 80s. Tip O'Neill promised Reagan that he would go along with a $3 cut in the budget in exchange for Reagan agreeing to $1 increase in taxes.

    As soon as the deal is reached amnesty will be granted and enforcement forgotten.

    I still don't get the white liberals though. They gotta know in just a few short years with the demographic changes their jobs will be in jeopardy. Do the 3 postmenopausal, haggard, multimillionaire white women from CA (Pelosi, Feinstein, Boxer)really expect to keep getting reelected when a majority of their constituents have names like; Lopez, Garcia, Chan, Patel, Chin...........................?
     
  7. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Of course...because they're hoping if they get control of the House back, in 10 years they can gerrymander the Lopezzes, Garcias, Chans, Patels, and Chins into their own little "majority minority" district, with their own Democrat rainbow-unicorn politician hand-picked to represent them...thereby leaving the old, white hags their familiar little district to keep as their private possession, to be handed down through their families.


    The tea party keeping control of the House really throws a wrench into that redistricting strategy, though.
     
  8. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    buzzy, gerrymandering will work for Pelosi, but what about the ole battle axes Boxer, and DiFi?

    What the hell am I thinking? It's CA. There is nothing they can do, that will cause them to lose and election.
     
  9. Traders

    Traders Well-Known Member

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    Immigration Facts for Consideration.

    The last time we had a big change in immigration law, Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, Ronald Regan was President and the it was a bipartisan decision.

    The US population has benefited from illegal immigration. If that wasn't true, we would have closed our borders a long time ago. Some readers of this site may not like it but people in construction, food service, landscape services, farmers, child care services, etc. sure do and we all get the benefit of cheaper labor. The difference between what an illegal gets paid and what an American would get paid for the same job is really a subsidy to our economy. When you cut through all of the talk, I believe that's why we haven't closed our borders. We like the subsidy.

    With the exception of emergency medical services and children's schooling, most illegals get very little in the way of government services. If you know any illegals you will know that unless they or their kids are close to dying or they are giving birth, they almost never get medical care because it's hard to keep a job of you are being "triaged" in an emergency room and illegals are too afraid of being identified and deported. They tend not to go to private doctors because they can't afford it. Many pay taxes under false SS numbers for benefits they will never collect.

    The current administration in Washington has done more to deport illegals and beef up the border than any previous administration
     
  10. Fla_native

    Fla_native TS Member

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    "....we all get the benefit of cheaper labor...."


    Tell me Trader, exactly what benefits would those be?

    EdH
     
  11. furface

    furface Member

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    Traders, I don,t know where your from but here there is 20% illegal population and everything you said is a direct reversal of the situation. It sounds good but that isn't the way it plays. Have you been trusting those politicos to tell you the truth? Then some benifit from the current policy.
     
  12. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

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    The problem is the voters that are voting for these politicians.With this bill there will be many more voters.There is really only one solution to all of this and it is drastic to say the least.


    Darr
     
  13. cbxchris

    cbxchris Active Member

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    Traders,your last time at a social services office?? I had the great fortune of working in one for several months. In a nutshell if you think illegals are as you say you are a fool. My observations were as follows. 10% white 40% Hispanic 50% black.......................of note to was virtually every employee there was black and weighed 250+ pounds. Real go getters......
     
  14. rpeerless

    rpeerless Well-Known Member

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    http://netrightdaily.com/2013/01/the-demonization-of-liberty/
     
  15. Traders

    Traders Well-Known Member

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    Fla-native,

    Cheaper medical care. (lots of illegals work in hospital food and janitorial services. Cheaper food, (Lots of illegals do farm work) etc. I think you get the idea but may not be willing to see the connection to cost reduction. Just think of it as the reduction of cost for providing the service. Under our capitalistic system, the price will eventually reflect the cost of delivery.

    Furface,

    Since you don't say where you are from it is hard to respond, I doubt that there is any reasonable sized municipality with 20% illegals but I am very eager to be educated. So, please provide more information and details about those situations that are "a direct reversal" of what I described.

    darr,

    To paraphrase W. Churchill, "Democracy is a terrible way to run a country, it's just better than the alternatives." I have also found that many voters will frequently vote for people and bills that are awful. This is especially troubling since I will have taken the time to try to bring them to the correct path.

    cbxchris,

    I have not been in a social services office in some time. Is that significant?

    Congratulations on your "great fortune". I was wondering how you were able to determine that all of the whites, hispanics, and blacks you came in contact with were illegals. Also, were you the "token" white or hispanic employee? I wonder if the black, 250+ pound employees were retired football players or perhaps Sumo wrestlers.
     
  16. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    As far as BarryO and border enforcement is concerned,..my guess is that if all those crossing the border were registering to vote Republican...the border fence would be 50ft high, electrified like a bug light, lined with snipers and Dobermans , oh and it would have been done 3years ago
     
  17. Fla_native

    Fla_native TS Member

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    Quote-- "Fla-native,

    Cheaper medical care. (lots of illegals work in hospital food and janitorial services. Cheaper food, (Lots of illegals do farm work) etc. I think you get the idea but may not be willing to see the connection to cost reduction. Just think of it as the reduction of cost for providing the service. Under our capitalistic system, the price will eventually reflect the cost of delivery."

    Sorry, not buying it.
    Your entire premise is based upon "cheap labor".... Here the problem with that-
    #1 - As things currently are, the labor is indeed cheap due to the fact that they are here illegally. This also drives down wages across the board resulting in a much lower standard of living for for the rest of us, especially the blue collar guys of which I am one.

    #2- The proposed amnesty would result in employers actually paying at least minimum wage thus eliminating your argument altogether.

    A quick question for you, as a person born here and with the documentation to prove it, do I get to pick out a federal law that I dislike and then ignore it?

    EdH
     
  18. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    One of the biggest reasons SAT scores are down around the US is illegal kids in school who can't comprehend the ENGLISH language.

    One of the biggest reasons medical care is skyrocketing is illegals going to the emergency room and getting care for minor things so they don't have to pay for it. Also in my home town there is a free medical clinic and they make reservations for others so even our white poor can't get in.

    Another reason for high medical costs is people dropping their insurance and then get sick. I over heard a guy at coffee the other morning who bragged about making $60,000 a year and refuses to buy insurance because it will be free if he doesn't have any.

    You haven't seen anything yet, wait till Obama gets near the end of his term. The freebies will be flying for the non-working minorities and illegals.
     
  19. Traders

    Traders Well-Known Member

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    CalvinMD,

    If you had done some research, you would have found that "BarryO", has allocated more money to closing the borders and deported more illegals than any of his predecessors. The last time the government talked about changing immigration laws and granting amnesty was in 1986, Ronald Regan was president. On the assumption that the problem had existed for at least the previous 10 years, we have had 4 Republican presidents and 3 Democratic and a whole variety of Congresses. None of them did as much of you are suggesting should have been done as "BarryO" has done.

    Yes, my premise is based on cheaper labor and yes, it may produce a lower standard of living for other blue collar guys. The problem is that you are assuming that if the illegals weren't doing the work at exploitive wages, the work, at higher wages would go to Americans. Unfortunately, there is no data that I know of to support that. What can be shown is that low wage jobs are disappearing at a very rapid rate for all the reasons we could talk about endlessly.

    Yes, you can ignore what ever laws you choose, State or Federal, if you are willing to take the same risks as the illegals.


    likes-to-shoot,

    I have never met an illegal kid, and by kid I mean in the upper grades of grammar school, who wasn't bilingual. One language at home and one in school. That's been standard in the US for at least 100 years for immigrants, legal or otherwise, from non-English speaking countries. SAT's are taken in high school. The schools may not be great, but the kids do speak English. Has your experience been different?

    Most of the Illegals come to the US for work and they tend to do that 7 days a week. If they were to go to an emergency room for "minor things" they would sit there all day as they were passed up by more serious problems. It would be hard to keep a job. That's why, with the exception of giving birth, they don't go unless they or their kids are close to dying.

    I really don't know much about the rules in free medical clinics so I really can't comment.

    Given you comments about the guy you "over heard at coffee the other morning", I am sure you understand that he gets a free ride and you pay the price. I guess you believe the mandated insurance under the new federal insurance plan is a good idea. He won't be able to get a free ride.
     
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