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Reading Target Breaks II

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Phil Kiner, Nov 12, 2008.

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  1. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    I could not stand it so I called the production company that produced my video and got them to send me an unencrypted file that I could post.

    These are two of the closups from my latest DVD and should help you make up your mind about reading target breaks.

    http://s30.photobucket.com/albums/c308/WhizWhite/?action=view┬Ąt=CUtargets.flv
     
  2. setter

    setter Member

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    Phil,

    Your link isn't working. By the way I want to thank you for visiting with my friend Jerry from Texas on his vision issue. Thanks!

    Regards,
    Jim Moody
     
  3. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Help-- on photobucket which has worked for before-- what do I need to do??? thanks pk

    <embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i346.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid346.photobucket.com/albums/p421/pkiner/CUtargets.flv">
     
  4. setter

    setter Member

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    Copy and paste the HTML code.
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Phil you are correct in your analysis of reading target breaks. Pat and Neil are in LaLaLand on this subject(I knew you wanted to say that). HMB
     
  6. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Setter- tried that it did not work
    MIA- you have a private message
     
  7. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Phil.... I guess I may as well get into it as well. There is no doubt that just about any AVERAGE shooter can take your information and totally understand just how important reading your target breaks can be when dialing in your gun. You read, I'm sure, the negative information and feedback I got when recommending using 1/16" and 1/32" spacers to fine tune your POI. Shooters will believe whatever they want to believe. It's like the old saying goes: "My minds made up, don't confuse me with facts". Let me put it like this: You keep talking, I'll keep listening. Your instruction and information has helped me immensly, and I'll continue to pay attention... Thanks.... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  8. setter

    setter Member

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    E-mail the pics to me!
     
  9. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Jim-done
     
  10. fdiesel

    fdiesel Member

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    Hey Phil, can me send me over those photos as well. Either a PM or on my personal email, it doesn't matter.

    Darryl
     
  11. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    need your email address I cannot get to go vie PM
     
  12. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Rickn-- thanks

    As you can see the first target is pretty well smoked and the second one is very definately hit low and right which is what the read would be.

    There are a couple of other hits on the DVD that are as telling but this is all I could get for free from the producer.
     
  13. setter

    setter Member

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    Phil,

    FYI, once I uploaded to photobucket I just copied the html code into the message text and it worked. Am not including since Rickn already posted.

    Jim
     
  14. fdiesel

    fdiesel Member

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    You have it already. This is Darryl Hayes
     
  15. The Loud One

    The Loud One TS Member

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    I keep hearing everyone talking about a shot string. It looks more like a shot "cloud". It's hard to tell from that angle, would anyone care to guess how long it is?
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Interesting pictures, Phil; thanks for putting them up. I must say I'm surprised at what you are calling reading the breaks. I'd always thought of it as waiting until a target is poorly broken and making my call based on what happens then. I see now, however, that you are doing it on really hard breaks.

    Here's what I see.

    Bird one, smoked.

    (edit here when I extracted two more frames) But then bird two, the slow motion one.

    1. Starting at time stamp 13, the frame three before it breaks and flies apart, here's what I see. Maybe a single pellet hitting dead center, but also what looks to me like the pellet cloud _above_ the bird. Left or right is hard to tell since we don't know what angle the shot is coming from, but it sure looks like the shot is above the bird and I'd say coming from the right, or so it seems.

    2. The next frame, the one two before it breaks, appears to me to be a bird surrounded by pellets, with plenty still above.

    3. In the next frame the bird is a little ball of black; hard to be sure about where the pellets are, but maybe they look like they are still basically all around it. Do I have this and the previous one correct? If so, I can't see your diagnosis, low and right, can be true. Have I got it wrong?

    4. The bird flies away in pieces. the big ones going mostly left, and up some as well.

    Neil
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    . . . and for those of you who persist in thinking that what you see when a bird flies apart is that it's the shot pushing the pieces apart and not target spin, run through the four frames in question, starting at second 13 and continuing into 12.

    1. See the shot coming from left, moving right

    2. The bird looks like it's surrounded by pellets, but still not showing any reaction

    3. See the next frame with the bird a black ball, starting to come apart. It looks like a censer to me.

    4. Go on to the next, when the bird has flown apart. How did those pellets you see in frame two knock all those pieces to the left when the shot is surely going in a pretty straight line to the right?

    Neil
     
  18. OneStab

    OneStab TS Member

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  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Nice work Phil. I believe the last target in your series is the one that is revealing. It appeared to me to be in the fringe of the pattern and did not break. Breaking a target in the pattern fringe involves some luck. The shot in this area is randomly distributed and is just as likely to hit the right side as the left side.

    When I see shooters reading target breaks, they only do that when one very small piece of the target is chipped off. This is the type of target break that I contend cannot be read.

    You and I don't really disagree with reading target breaks. We are just looking at very different types of target breaks. When you hit a target just a little to the left and the target is obliterated with a few larger pieces going to the right, you conclude that you were just a little off to the left and you tighten up for the next shot. When we do the same thing, we smile and say, I really hit that target hard.

    I believe this question will require us drinking at least two cups of coffee together at the Dixie Grand. It is not too far away and time really seems to be passing fast.

    Pat Ireland

    Pat Ireland
     
  20. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    Pat -- You misinterpreted the video-- there is video of only two different targets one at normal speed and the second is the same target in slo-mo so you can see the shot approaching the target and then it is stopped to show where the shot cloud was located on that target.

    Therefore: the target that was barely broken with the big pieces flying up and left is the same target that is in the slo-mo with the frame stopped showing most of the shot under and right.

    Neil-- I have never said that spin was not a factor in target. In fact target spin is a factor because without it you could not smoke a target. Spin is what gives the smoke that black tornado effect when you really turn one inside out.
     
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