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Reading Breaks and Adjustments

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by hmb, Dec 29, 2009.

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  1. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Keep up the good work. You're on the right track. HMB
     
  2. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Read what breaks? I need to learn how to read all my misses.



    Gne J
     
  3. Smok'n Joe

    Smok'n Joe Active Member

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    I have to agree with Paul...reading breaks is an important part of getting a gun set up.
    Smok'n Joe
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    OK, Paul, I'm on three and "my breaks" tell me my shot is traveling too low. I raise the comb and now my breaks are better.

    But I'm deep into this so I decide my breaks are telling me I'm to the left of the targets. What do I do?

    And does it work?

    Neil
     
  5. Dr A C Jones

    Dr A C Jones Member

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    I am reluctant to spoil the love-in, but, wasn't there an anecdote about a top trap shooter (Frank Little?) who someway into his career pattern tested his gun and found it shot way off to the side? Top shot, much success, couldn't tell by looking at the breaks that the gun shot in the wrong place.

    As I wrote, it's just an anecdote . . .

    Andrew.
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Andrew- It was Frank Little and I can take some credit/discredit for getting Frank to finally shoot his BT-99 on paper. He had set a long run record with the gun, but discovered it was shooting to the left. After that discovery, Frank could never shoot the gun well (well for him) again. Frank believed he could read his breaks but he never figured out the gun shot to the left until he shot some paper. Frank did not believe a gun should be patterned. I have patterned many guns and learned little. Frank may have been right.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I was never much of a Frank Little fan due to his personality (he often shot at a local club) but I did like his "results oriented" philosophy of shooting. He didn't get tangled up in technobabble, just did what it took to break lots of targets hard. How that came about was unimportant to him and I like that. I pattern to make sure the gun shoots where it looks and let my targets tell me when I have it shooting where I look and am using the best choke for me. Keep It Simple, Stupid.

    Ed
     
  8. yansica1

    yansica1 Member

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    All my early guns shot to the left and a little low; I was not aware of this till much later and although I shot well enough, it was only when I started shooting high comb guns with a little cast that my scores got into the zone so to speak. This gentleman Frank Little may have had a gun that shot a bit off centre but if he was a proficient fast shooter, he may well have compensated for it subconsciously.
    Thinking back now, I clearly remember getting lots of bottom edge breaks on crossers. I also recall smoking teal that I had clearly shot to the right of!!

    If he did or did not have a left shooting gun does not prove that thousands of shooters are imagining things every time they shoot.
     
  9. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    OK my question is this. Frank was a very proficient shot as records state. But just because he could break targets does that also mean he was as proficient when shooting static targets? What you say? A right handed shoter shooting a stationary target will routinely pull to the left. Thats fact! SO did it really shoot to the left?

    As I remember the story from Frank, it wasn't that he saw his pattern to the left of center but rather the number of holes in the patterns that caused his lack of further confidence in that BT99.

    Pat, are you admitting that the professional instruction that you gave the great Frank Little could have possibly caused a negative impact with his shooting efficiency? What a BUD!!!!!!!!
     
  10. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Would reading this or that into a chips direction off a target be a positive or negative thought while shooting?

    Why is it accepted you can learn a lot by smoking a clay yet one shouldn't even consider a miss? Have you ever called for a target and knew before the shot left the barrel it was a good shot? I think the same process used that assured you that shot was good also tells you where you were on a target that's chipped! In front,high,low, behind it or it looked good?

    All that tells me is that I'd better get a more intent look at the bird leaving and a better bird/bead relationship on the next one!

    Hap
     
  11. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Fred, I met him a few times at Conewago, usually with one or more of Gene's Labrador retrievers running around while squads were trying to shoot without hitting a dog. Funny how much shooters will tolerate when you're an ATA VP!

    The two things that turned me off on Frank both happened at Elysburg. Glen C. and I were about to shoot handicap and I was a newer shooter who was really struggling from 20 yards. I told Glen that here is where I make an a$$ out of myself and a voice behind us said to me, "You know, for about the cost of four cases of shells, I can tell you why you can't break good handicap scores." It was Frank Little and I immediately decided that I would never pay to attend one of his clinics because all I obviously was to him was a source of income. If he had said something generic like, "Keep your head down" or "Look at the target," I probably would have been flattered that the great Frank Little, a Pennsylvania trapshooting legend, offered me advice.

    Since then, I've taken a total of seven clinics from three different instructors, so I wasn't opposed to spending money for good coaching.

    A few years after the first incident, I watched Frank and Kay Ugly shoot doubles. Frank missed two first targets for a 98 and later that day, I was looking at the scores on the PSSA front porch when he walked up to do the same. I told him I was in no way belittling his shooting but wondered why he missed first targets as they are supposed to be the easier of the two. He blamed the trap boy by telling me, "It's simple - the targets were not placed on the arm correctly and did not fly where they should have."

    Obviously, both remarks made a lasting impression upon me as I can still hear him saying them. Unfortunately, that impression was a negative one. He was a great shooter, however, and no one can take that away from his legacy.

    Ed
     
  12. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Ed... Thought you might enjoy this little story about Frank Little. I was attending his clinic in Redding, California in the early 90's. It was the first day of the clinic and Frank was fitting our guns to us and checking POI. I was shooting a KS5 Special at the time. I was shooting AA singles at the time, but struggling with handicap. After shooting for POI, Frank had me raise my comb about 1/4" and lower the front of the rib a couple turns. After he did that, he took my rib and comb tool and threw it over the side of the hill in front of the trap we were shooting off of and told me to never touch the comb or rib again. We then lined up to shoot our newly adjusted guns from the 16. I broke 16 of the 25 targets and couldn't believe it. Frank just told me to keep shooting it that way and I would get used to it. After the day was over and everyone left, I hurried over to the hill and started looking for the wrench. Fortunately, I found it. I immediately adjusted the comb back down to where it was, and re-adjusted the rib. The next day, we warmed up with a round of singles, in which I broke them all into nothing but smoke... Frank walked over to me and said, "See, I told you that you could shoot it that way if you just gave it a chance." I left the gun as it was and finished out that season with a .978 average on 3700 singles targets, including 13 100 straights for the year... Best season I've ever had in singles since.... I still chuckle about Frank tossing that wrench over the hill.... He really was a heck of a guy and I enjoyed his clinic more than any other I have taken. I have to admit, he taught me a lot more in the 2 days I spent with him than any of the other instructors I have had ever did....... Just my experience.... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  13. jhh

    jhh Member

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    Neil, If you see this please coment, I am the guy that won't offer an opinion to the shooter about where his hits are till I see 50 targets shot at. I am not interested in a single shot call as we all can make a bad point at any time. Assuming I can to any degree "read" a break I think I see a lot of what appear to be left side hits on straight away and soft angle targets yet I don't think that is in reality the pattern being on the left side of the target. I'll have someone tell me that they are hitting their straight aways on the left side and they think they ought to change their comb, but if they are centering both their right and left angles I think that it is target rotation causing the break to look like it is on the left. I would encourage anyone thinking he is shooting right or left, based on station 3 straight aways, to lock the trap for right angles and shoot 25 from station 5; left from station 1 ect. Possibly interesting, when I was shooting live birds I put a ring in at my farm. When serious about guns and shells a few friends and I would "pick" the dead birds to see where they were hit, it was telling. Regards, John Hancock
     
  14. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    Paying for advice? I guess. But I'd be willing to say after a class I'd still be left with some guessing left to do. Some people do have a better understanding of what's occuring while trying to hit a bird, no doubt. But I've found no trouble in asking questions and getting great advice, all for free. Watching a better shooter isn't a mystery. Where are his feet? Where does he hold his gun on the trap house? What loads does he use? What choke is he using? etc,... There might even be guys that know the trap machines so well they know where the next bird is going. Many a home run has been hit by guys guessing the next pitch. I don't think I've ever seen the machines at my club throw a hard left or hard right bird more than twice in a row. Knowing little things like that can improve your score. Someday I might take one of those classes myself. For now I'm happy with the 'pros' at my club. And a good friendship comes along with the advice. Jim
     
  15. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Jim, there's nothing wrong with gun club porch coaching but what do those guys tell you to think about when calling for a target? Where do they tell you to look for the target? Where do they tell you to hold your gun under different conditions? There's a bunch of other things they can't tell you because we're all different and unless a coach has spent enough time studying enough other shooters to be able to see what they're doing right and wrong, their advice isn't very reliable.

    By the way, how many times have those guys on the porch been All-Americans? Are they on the 27? Have they ever broken a 200-straight? 100-straight? See where I'm going with this?

    There sure isn't a thing wrong with friendly gun club coaching. But there may not be very much right with it, either, unless you're a raw beginner. As soon as you need advice tailored to your shooting style, the number of qualified coaches shrinks. The best money you can spend on your shooting career is attending a clinic, especially one where the instructor uses a lot of video to illustrate the "whys" behind his or her advice.

    Ed
     
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