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Question re AR-15 type guns...

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by claybrdr, Aug 21, 2008.

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  1. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    I know Colt has "name power" but wonder how the various other clones stack up quality wise. I'm especially interested in the DPMS models since I have an opportunity to get one at a good price. Are they the equal to Bushmaster, et als?

    A friend almost bought some POS named Hesse (sp?) that had a plastic upper. A local dealer showed him one like it that had blown up....
     
  2. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Your questions would be answered best on one of the AR sites...that's where all the experts are.
     
  3. FN in MT

    FN in MT TS Member

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    DPMS and Bushmaster have all passed some stringent test procedures as there are dozens of Police Agencies carrying them as Patrol carbines.

    I've owned one of each and with normal care and maint have had zero problems with either of them.

    Go to AR15.com forums and check in there for all the answers.

    FN in MT
     
  4. AJ100

    AJ100 TS Member

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    Stag Arms.... The only company to build a left handed rifle. The parent company makes parts for a lot of other AR manufacturers.

    AJ100
     
  5. XT Bill

    XT Bill TS Member

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    2nd. for Stag! Colt (and others) use Stag upper recievers.
     
  6. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    I am still in the planning stage of purchasing my first AR. So far I keep coming back to STAG. I just want a entry level 16" with carry handle. What I like about STAG is it has all the same features of the Smith&Wesson M&P. Which stag built for them for the first year or so. runs about 350 less than the M&P.
    Prices may have went up a bit. I got a price from My dealer 845.00 with 2 ten round mags hard case and cleaning kit. Stag model 1 post ban. AR15.com is loaded with info. Almost to much. I live in massachusetts. You can not get a colt here????? We have several AR 15 shooters at our club. I been picking the brains of the one guy I see the most. He has many many variants of the ar, even a very short barrel model and one that looks like a pistol. Apparently you need a special permit for the short barrels. I asked him what he thinks I should get for a entry level 1000.00 or less gun. he gave bushmaster DPMS and stag. cant go wrong with any. He only pointed out that it should be a chrome lined barrel. Also said if going to be running military/surplus ammo dont wast your money on more exspensive target models.
     
  7. ljunatic

    ljunatic Member

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    Bushmaster and DPMS are middle of the road.

    Best are Colt, LMT, Noveske.

    Best for less, Stag Arms or Del-ton kit rifles


    Sabre Defence, Rock River Arms , BCM, Stag Arms, CMMG, are just a few in the upper mid level, probably all better than Bushmaster and DPMS in overall quality. All of the manufacturers have laid a few eggs recently with the huge demand for AR15 parts forcing some drop in quality control. A Bushmaster or DPMS can be a very reliable rifle IF it is properly assembled and not defective parts are used. A problem can happen with any make AR15
     
  8. spritc

    spritc Active Member

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    I have owned several Colts even an SP1, several Bushmasters a DPMS or two an Armalite or two and never had any issues with any of them. All would shoot where pointed with a great deal of accuracy. Buy whichever floats your boat.

    Steve
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Colt is very overrated.<br>
    <br>
    Rock River Arms is at the top of my list, followed by, in no particular order, Bushmaster (who also makes them for Remington), DPMS and Armalite. Bushmaster makes an excellent DCM target rifle, and for an out of the box rifle, it's the standard of many DCM shooters.<br>
    <br>
    Olympic Arms has a reputation for being at the bottom of the heap. Some of this was due to their AR15's having cast receivers. New Olympic Arms AR15's have forged receivers. If you buy used, you need to know how to spot cast receivers so you can avoid them. (Oly wasn't the only ones to use castings, so this is useful info. Click the link.) SGW also built many AR15's with cast receivers, though they did make some with forged (my very old SGW beaters have forged receivers). Olympic Arms makes a good barrel, the Stainless Ultra Match, but the rest of the gun just doesn't make it worthwhile for buying new. Used, they're OK if the price is right. Many AR15 builders consider Oly innards to be on the soft side, leading to premature wear.<br>
    <br>
    As I said, Colt is way overrated. Their quality dipped to the point where they started losing government contracts to FN. At one point, before the other makers really got into manufacturing AR15's, Colt was king of the heap for innards. Until they slipped and FN became the desired parts source. The biggest part of Colt being overrated is accuracy. You're paying a lot of money on the basis of the reputation of their name, but you sure aren't getting you money's worth for accuracy. In other words, you can spend less and get a gun just as accurate or more accurate from other makers. The most disappointing Colt was their stainless varmint rifle with 24" barrel. On the other hand, Colt AR15's retain their value, and many versions are collector's items. Colt collectors can get pretty fanatical about certain models, box color, yadda yadda yadda. You need a scorecard to buy used Colt. For what Colt has been making for the last few years, I'd have to put them as middle of the road for AR15's. A lot better than many, but not as high of quality as they should be.<br>
    <br>
    If you come across American Spirit Arms, run run run away. In my opinion they made pure junk and their customer service would do Torquamada proud. I don't even think they're in business anymore, but their used guns show up from time to time.<br>
    <br>
    As to what AR15 configuration, the sky's the limit. What are you planning to do with it? You can get almost every configuration now except the very early (Vietnam era) M16, M16A1 and XM177E2 styles, though it is possible to piece them together from scratch. The early Colt versions really command prices, but are probably the best way to go, because at the time they were being made, the competition was generally inferior. There are also surplus A1 uppers. The current A2 version replaced the true A1 (though Oly and others sell a hybrid A1/A2), and the current M4 replaced the XM177E2. The A3 is the flat top version of the A2. For target work, a free floating heavy or match barrel is desirable.<br>
    <br>
    Which brings up to another thing. Ability to swap uppers. You can have a short barreled tactical or defense gun, plus a scoped heavy barrel flat top, with just one lower. Swap the uppers as needed. This really helps stretch the budget money.
     
  10. ljunatic

    ljunatic Member

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    Brian I agree that Colt is overrated, yet it is still rated the best by the most. I agree with you and all my AR's are Rock River Arms
     
  11. CalvinMD

    CalvinMD Well-Known Member

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    Are the standard barrels ok accuracy wise when fired rapidly...or do the heavier stainless barrels have a major edge
     
  12. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Bushmaster is now owned by Remington.
     
  13. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Is that a Rock River mid-length carbine in the foreground?
     
  14. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Bushmaster is NOT owned by Remington. Cerberus bought Bushmaster, Remington and DPMS. Bushmaster is making AR15's for Remington.
     
  15. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the info, guys. I also found some info at the AR-15 site and will try the one you linked, Brian.
     
  16. oz

    oz Active Member

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    don't rule out rock river, that's what the dea bought. oz
     
  17. K80Dude

    K80Dude Member

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    The best is Colt and LMT. They are considered Tier 1 manufactures and do all the military work. I have on order a new LMT with a gas piston upper. The best AR is the HK 416t/417 however these are not available to the public. Bushmaster seems to go in cycles, they tend to be either very good or crap. Right now the reports I am hearing is they are somewhere in the middle of good and crap, so very average I suppose. Rock River, Stag etc are good guns however they cheap out in some areas that Colt and LMT do not. For the average shooter who is having fun with them etc the Rock River and others are going to be more then fine. If your looking for a combat weapon that will be abused like our military does then they would have some big short comings. Yes lots of police use Bushmaster, Rock River, Stag etc and for the most part do ok for them. You have to remember price points are a big issue when supplying lots of people. Check out AR15.com for more info then you can shake a stick at.

    Dave
     
  18. PFCSkoug

    PFCSkoug TS Member

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    i would just like to add on the whole not of colt being good firearms, during basic training i was one of the lucky ones who got a FN m-16 and never once had a single malfuntion of any kind with that rifle. My buddy got stuck with one of those colt and every trip to the range something went wrong with that rifle, double feeds, stovepipe brass rip rims off of cases. I know what your gonna say well he didnt clean his weapon properly. Well him and i cleaned our weapons together every day the same way and i never had problems.

    Nathan
     
  19. ljunatic

    ljunatic Member

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    Brian, the one in the foreground is an RRA lower with a Sabre Defence 16" midlength chrome-lined govt. profile barrel with 1x7 twist. It would have been all RRA if they had not been so slow getting their lightweight middy to market

    Middle row is all RRA, 16" midlength chrome-lined govt.profile 1x9 twist that was a custom build by Adco Firearms in Ohio. Rail is a Daniel Defense 9.0 LITE Optic is an EOTech 512

    In the rear is an 18" RRA that was a cut down from 20". Recontoured to govt. profile, once again by Adco. This barrel is a chrome-moly 1x9 twist and has a Midwest Industries rail and a Nikon 3-9x40 Monarch.


    As you can see I don't buy the heavier is better thinking .
     
  20. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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