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Question on Smith & Wesson Revolver

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by AveragEd, Mar 4, 2013.

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  1. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Taking tension off the hammer spring will reduce pull weight somewhat but it does so only by allowing the hammer to be withdrawn more easily. That also makes the hammer fall with less force, which can result in failures to fire. The best way to lighten the trigger pull weight is to replace both that spring as well as the trigger's rebound spring with ones that come in kits from Wolfe Spring or Wilson Combat. Be sure to order their "reduced power" kit or you'll get springs identical to the ones you now have.

    There are YouTube videos on how to change those springs.

    Ed
     
  2. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    The strain screw on the S&W revolver MUST be kept tight. If loosened, it will continue to do so.

    If you want to reduce pull, you can re arch the spring, if you have that knowledge. The more arch the spring has, the less power it delivers. Excessive arch will cause misfires and/or stop the hammer from going to full cock.

    Folks in the know do not install a reduced power rebound spring. A positive trigger reset is CARDINAL with this gun.

    Misfires with some primers/loads are cause to take some of the arch out of the spring.

    If you reload, Federal primers are a little softer than other brands and do well with reduced power hammer and striker springs.

    The negative part of Fed primers is, Dillon presses occasionally have primer explosions with them. Dillon suggests not using Federal primers.
     
  3. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Coach, with ALL due respect, I have Wolfe reduced power springs in all my S&Ws that I shoot a lot and have never had a problem of any kind. I don't think they would sell as many as they do and have sold for so many years if they were not reliable.

    For combative shooting, your statement has merit. And the two 629s I use for hunting have their stock springs as well. But for the kind of shooting most of us do with our handguns - putting holes in paper - it's a different story. Those bullseye targets can't shoot back.

    One other thought - any gun's action will smooth with use and the newer Smith & Wessons are even more prone to that, if the many posts on the S&W Forum about those MIM guns have merit. I have only older ones with forged and fitted parts, so I don't have first-hand knowledge of that.

    Ed
     
  4. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    The Jerry Miculek spring kit will actually increase the da trigger pull weight. Part of his requirement is for rapid and positive trigger rebound and also positive ignition both of which require strong springs.

    On the 625 I wouldn't replace the hammer leaf spring with anything less than the factory original. You need a good strong hit to reliably set off the .45 acp when it is in moon clips and especially if you are using CCI primers.

    On the 586 you can get by with a reduced power spring kit but eventually you will get misfires. This may or may not be important to you.

    What ever you do, don't back out the hold down screw. That is there for disassembly only and it needs to be torqued down to insure proper functioning.

    The best solution to getting the DA pull on your guns to feel lite is to build strength in your shooting hand. No BS and that came from the master himself. (Jerry)
     
  5. quartering

    quartering Active Member

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    yes is the short answer. but how much are you trying to reduce it? do you have a trigger pull scale? i don't know what factory is, but the trigger pull weight on my ipsc 686 is just under 6 da; just over 2 sa. see wolff springs at gunsprings.com. - tons of good information there. btw, a drop of blue loctite will keep the strain screw from backing out and starting with a smooth action is about 75% of what you're searching for. good luck with it
     
  6. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    quartering , the factory da pull is around 12 lbs.

    Shooting Coach is right about replacing the trigger return spring. It will probably slow down the trigger return too much. I have always gone back to the factory trigger return spring. It increases the pull some but there is only so much that can be done.

    The light Wolfe mainspring is ok but really needs to be combined with smoothing the action parts. I always checked the results with a CCI Magnum primer. If it sets those off it will fire any.

    Keep the strain screw tight!

    Jerry Miculek would not use a light spring. No one could fire a gun that fast with light springs, no way. I have read that one of Ed McGivern's S&W revolvers was tested and found to have a 21 lb trigger pull. Those two guys could squeeze the s%@t out of a buffalo nickel.
     
  7. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    The first thing anyone must identify before making any changes to a firearm is what the gun will be used for. For putting holes in paper, hunting or rapid-fire shooting? I agree with not tampering with a hunting revolver's action - that animal may only give you one chance to get a shot off in very cold weather - and can see where a lighter rebound spring could slow double-action shooting, albeit a smidgen. I VERY rarely fire my revolvers in double-action mode - in fact, I can't recall the last time I did - so trigger rebound speed is a non-issue for me.

    If you're planning on going to war tomorrow, leave the gun alone. If you want to increase your enjoyment while striving for small groups on paper targets with it, a spring kit works inexpensive yet effective wonders.

    Ed
     
  8. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Well Ed, In that case, you don't need to bother with a double action revolver at all.

    Double action revolvers are made for double action shooting. Why would anyone want a double action revolver that isn't reliable, just to have a light single action pull, not me? If you only want to shoot single action, buy a Ruger.

    Double action revolver sports exist. It's not about war, it's about target shooting. I would be embarrassed to show someone a revolver I worked over that only half worked. If the springs are too light to work properly double action, it won't work properly single action either.

    For those that think they will "smooth out the action" by using light springs, it doesn't work that way.
     
  9. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Exactly Johnny,

    Think about it a bit - you wouldn't do everything possible to increase the lock time of your shotgun would you? Right up to the edge of misfiring? It's not just a question of reliability but accuracy as well.
     
  10. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Okay, before this becomes even more of a urinating contest based upon assumptions, be advised that ALL of my S&W double-action revolvers function just fine in double-action mode. I just do not fire them that way as I don't participate in those kinds of events. I get my jollies trying to shoot a tighter 10-round group than my last one, not seeing how quickly I can empty the cylinder or magazine.

    I did shoot some PPC matches perhaps 25 years ago in which many of the target presentations required double-action shooting to get your 12 shots off in the allotted time. My PPC gun du jour was a 4" Model 19-3 with a spring kit and it never failed to fire.

    If I wanted investment-cast revolvers that are uncomfortable to shoot, especially with heavier loads, I would own a fleet of Rugers. They are nice guns, no question about it, but not my cup of tea. I bought one in 1976 and while it shot decently, I just didn't care for it. I do wish I would have kept it as it was rollmarked, "Made in the 200th year of American liberty."

    Next, I never inferred that lighter springs would smooth an action. Obviously, rough surfaces remain rough regardless of the spring tension upon them. Those springs DO lighten the trigger pull, however, and that can make for more enjoyable shooting.

    Isn't having fun the whole idea?

    Ed
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The best double action revolvers are the old S&W five screw models. They have a longer action which spreads the work over a longer distance, thus reducing the work load on the trigger. You can also shorten the strain screw by filing a radius at the end of the screw. It will be shorter, the curved surface will cut down on friction and it can be kept tight. HMB
     
  12. stilltrying

    stilltrying Member

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    I used to shoot PPC in the 70s from 7 to 50 yards. Back then guys would cut two coils off the hammer rebound spring. Of course if you then you drop a cocked gun it may go off! I never dropped my revolver. As for an expensive polishing job just shoot a few boxes of shell and it will be sweet. DO NOT MESS WITH THE STRAIN SPRING. I know that doing so will cause the gun to misfire with mag primers or on cold days. Also do not try "Marrying" the trigger that is for single action and if you mess it up you will not be able to hone the correct angle. Wheel guns are reliable keep yours that way. Good shooting.
     
  13. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Cutting two coils off the rebound spring will not cause the gun to fire if you drop it. S&W revolvers have a safety bar that rides on the hammer and blocks the hammer from falling all the way to the primer if you do not have the trigger pulled all the way back. Only if that bar is removed will there be a problem. HMB
     
  14. stilltrying

    stilltrying Member

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    According to the parts illustration I just reviewed on the web the 586 hammer block is still activated by the rebound slide. . I will have to do a little research to see if it was changed. I have worked on j-k-l -n's hundreds of times back in the 80s and 90s. Research shows it was not changed still works like the guns made in the 1970's and 1980's.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    "Next, I never inferred that lighter springs would smooth an action."

    Sorry Ed, that wasn't meant to be directed at you. Look and you will see another poster made the comment "I smoothed out my S&W 625 by adjusting the spring"
     
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