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Question on reloading Wads

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by leadhead358, Nov 11, 2008.

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  1. leadhead358

    leadhead358 Member

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    I'm using federal 12s3 wads for 1 1/8oz loads, rem nitro hulls, int clay 21.4 gr powder and win 209 primer. My question is a friend gave me 5000 tgt remington wads, can I use this wad instead of the 12s3. I know it is for only an ounce load but will it work for the load and would there be any differences in psi or fps.
     
  2. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Leadhead.... The Federal 12S3 wad is designed to be shot in a straight walled hull, such as a Federal. You are loading them in a Remington "Tapered" wall hull, which is the wrong application of the wad. The Remington wads you were given are designed for the tapered hull and are what you should be using. As for the amount of shot you can use, and how much powder, it is best to rely on the powder mfgrs. reloading guide and follow it. Straight walled wads for straight walled hulls, tapered wads for tapered hulls. Makes all the difference in the world...... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  3. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    leadhead, your use of Int. Clays is to bulky to also use a wad such as a tgt with 1 1/8oz of shot. Out_of_curiousity, why do you use a 12S3 normally?
     
  4. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Trap2

    "The Remington wads you were given are designed for the tapered hull and are what you should be using. As for the amount of shot you can use, and how much powder, it is best to rely on the powder mfgrs. reloading guide and follow it."

    Gee Dan that is funny the Hodgdon on line reloading guide list 12S3 wads and the receipt that leadhead has listed yet they don't list Remington target 12 wads. I suggest you take take your own advice.

    "it is best to rely on the powder mfgrs. reloading guide and follow it."

    Bob Lawless
     
  5. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    The TGT-12 wads will sometimes work with dense powders like Titegroup in 1 1/8oz loads, although the pressures with that powder are sometimes higher than I'd like to load for. The 12S3 wad is a great wad for straight walled hulls, but will work in the tapered hulls like the STS/Nitro if pressed to do so. The TGT-12 wads are best used for tapered hulls in 1oz loads. The Remington Figure 8 is the one that works for 1 1/8 oz. Check Hodgdon's site for data.
     
  6. 3dram8

    3dram8 Member

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    The Federal 12S3 wad is designed primarily for the Federal Gold Medal hull which is pretty straight walled, so the base of the wad is actually slightly larger in diameter so that the wad will be a tight fit against the wall of the Federal hull. The Remington wad is designed for the Remington hull which has a tapered wall (thicker as you go deeper) so the wad base is slightly smaller in diameter than the Federal. So, to answer your question, the TGT wad is DESIGNED for the Remington STS and NITRO hull. Consult Hodgdon Powder's published data though for the correct charge weight for the velocity you are looking to achieve. Since you mentioned 21.4 gr. as your charge weight, I assume you are in the habit of checking charge weights on an accurate scale which is definitely recommended for safety. ....Rick
     
  7. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Trap2 and Quack are correct. Remington Nitro 27 shells used to be loaded with International Clays, and they used the TGT-12 wad in them. Although the wad was quite compressed, it worked well.

    Hodgdon doesn't list that wad in their Int Clays reloading data. They don't list it for their TiteGroup load either, even though it fits much better than the Fig-8 they do list. A simple call to the Hodgdon ballisticians will tell you that substituting the TGT for the Fig-8 in the TiteGroup data makes no difference. As them the same question about Int Clays.

    As an aside, why not consider using 1 ounce of shot with your components. Hodgdon lists 18.9gr of Int Clays with an STS hull, W209 primer and the TGT-12 wad. I can tell you from experience that it is a superb load. Use it an 1oz #8 shot for singles. You won't be able to tell the difference.
     
  8. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Bob,

    Dan and the others are right. I believe the reloading manuals list other hull/wad combinations as substitutes for what an individual reloader may have on hand. For Example, if my normal load is STS/TGT12 and I run out of TGT's, I can look in a book and find a load for 12S3's or 12S0's since I have a thousand of those on hand or I can only find Federal wads locally.

    At least that is how I use the tables.

    Same goes for primers though. I don't like to use Winchester primers in STS hulls. I find the primer pockets become too loose before the hull fails. So its Remington primers in Remington hulls and Winchester primers in Winchester hulls.

    Mike
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    mercedesman1981

    "Dan and the others are right. I believe the reloading manuals list other hull/wad combinations as substitutes for what an individual reloader may have on hand. For Example, if my normal load is STS/TGT12 and I run out of TGT's, I can look in a book and find a load for 12S3's or 12S0's since I have a thousand of those on hand or I can only find Federal wads locally."

    I beg to differ with you I have been posting on this site for at least 4 years and when ever someone post a receipt on here that someone else takes exception to. The original poster is blasted inside out and told repeatedly that he should only use published data on any load.

    leadhead358 ask if he could substitute TGT 12 wads for 12S3 wads. The Answer is NO he can not unless he changes what ever is needed to conform to published load data.

    There was not a need to tell him "The Federal 12S3 wad is designed to be shot in a straight walled hull, such as a Federal. You are loading them in a Remington "Tapered" wall hull, which is the wrong application of the wad."

    The receipt he is using is published in Hodgdon's on line Manuel so obviously the application for the load is not wrong.

    I very seldom get involved in reloading data threads(more lately than in the past)for this reason. leadhead obviously is using a published load and everyone tells him the he is wrong. Yet if he came in here with a load that obviously was not a published load everyone would tell him he is wrong.

    So you guys have to make up your mind as it stands now. If one has a published load they are wrong if they don't they wrong.

    I don't understand how you guys determine published is it something from your memory or from the manufacturer. Whether you like it or not something that is a book load this month may not be next month.

    Some of you need to think before you leap if leadhead is relatively new to reloading all this inconstancy is not going to teach him anything is it.

    You yourself have said.

    "Same goes for primers though. I don't like to use Winchester primers in STS hulls. I find the primer pockets become too loose before the hull fails. So its Remington primers in Remington hulls and Winchester primers in Winchester hulls."

    You also said.

    "At least that is how I use the tables."

    Just where does it tell that about primers in the book? I have never seen it if you are going to give advice do it by the book not your own habits. If the book says it is all right how does Dan, you or anyone else have the right to tell him he is wrong????????

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Bob Lawless..... I did not say that you could not use the 12S3 in a tapered hull, I was only trying to point out that for peak performance, a tapered wad is better suited, and designed, for tapered hulls, and straight walled wads are better suited, and designed, for straight walled hulls. Given the two choices he has available to him, the straight walled wad would not be the "preferred" application over the tapered wad he was given. It would, in fact, be the wrong choice. Yes, they both will work, however, in most cases, the performance of a reload will be at its best with the wad designed for that hull. Like I said, it makes a world of difference. So, I stand corrected. Leadhead, use whichever wad you want to use. Both will do the job, but, one will do a better job than the other...... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  11. leadhead358

    leadhead358 Member

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    pheasant master

    thats what the recipe called for from hodgdon and I had some left from loading some federals. Recipe rem hull, win 209 primer, int clays 21.4 gr and fed 12s3 wad. I'm truly open to suggestions using win primers, int clays powder, rem or aa hulls.I want to keep 1250 to 1300 fps using 1 1/8 oz loads.
     
  12. leadhead358

    leadhead358 Member

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    zzt

    I have been shooting 1 oz loads using win 209 primers, sts hulls, tgt wads, 22.8 gr powder. Looking to get 1300 fps or more for sporting clays. Always open for suggestions.
     
  13. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    I suggest that you trade for or pick up some Rem Fig 8 wads and follow Hodgdon's recipe for the 1255 f/s load.

    Since 11,500 psi is the maximum working pressure for 12 ga, I prefer to load below 11,000 psi. So if I were to load a 1255+ f/s load I would use Hodgdon's Universal powder.

    Jason
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Remember, good reloading manuals will list safe loads, not necessarily good loads. Some of the loads listed in reloading manuals are not very good. I recall, several years ago a 1 oz load for 800X showing up in several manuals. That was a safe, but really bad load.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. WoodsonEnt

    WoodsonEnt Active Member

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    Let me weigh in. I am a reloading components dealer and sell Downrange wads. The 12S3 wad can be used in tapered hulls, even though it is made for straight walled hulls. The 12S3 performs best in straight walled hulls. The TGT12 is a wad that is mostly used in 1 ounce reloads. I have heard of it being used in 1 1/8 ounce loads under the two situations: If using a bulky powder it has to be compressed alot. If using a fine powder it will load 1 1/8 ounce. To the original poster, I believe if you are using International Clays that you will have to compress the TGT12 wad alot. Why not save you some money, and use the Intl. Clays powder and TGT wad and load some 1 ounce. If you are using the Remington hull, Intl. Clays and wanting to load 1 1/8 ounce.....I would suggest the Figure8 wad or the Downrange XL-1 1/8 wad.

    Matt - Woodson Enterprises "The Scattergun Store" (270) 804-5454
     
  16. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    leadhead, I ask only because Federal wads can be hard to obtain in many areas and normally reloaders don't typically buy Fed. wads for straight wall cases unless some friend advises. On a personal note, the only 700X load I've liked to date was a one ouncer in a AA case and used the 12SO. Nice light load, atleast to my nervous system.
     
  17. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    leadhead, you are already getting more than 1300fps with the load you listed. Hodgdon's data says 21.5gr gives you 1290fps with the components you list, and you are 1.3gr over that. I'd say you are over 1325fps with your 22.8gr.
     
  18. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I've been reloading 1-1/8oz shot in Federal hulls with a 1oz WAASL wad and 17.5 grains of 700x for years. Its right out of the IMR reloading manual.

    Crimps are good, no powder migration, and patterns great. Wayne
     
  19. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    If I am loading a hull that has a straight wall, I want to use a wad that matches the shape of the hull. Putting a tapered wad into a hull with straight walls cannot result in a nice tight fit.

    If I spend my time reloading, I want to produce the best shells I can. If I just want shells that are safe, go bang and break a few targets, I will buy discount shells.

    Pat Ireland
     
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